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Old 01-20-2012, 09:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
Howard would be one of the nastiest defensive ends or even linebackers in the nfl with a bit of training. Can you imagine that 7' 275 lb 9% body fat monster hitting you.
Too tall. They'd bust him in half.
He's *skinny* by NFL standards.
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Yeah, but I couldn't really see Dwight or Wilt excelling in any other sport. Lebron could be a fearsome TE, WR, or possible pass rusher in the NFL. Dwight can jump and he's strong, but mobility is a big part of athleticism imho, and Lebron is far more mobile than Dwight.

I think Iverson definitely belongs in the convo.


Allen Iverson Playing High School Football - YouTube


Allen Iverson High School AAU Highlights - Iverson dominates AAU basketball game - YouTube
Iverson would get *annihilated* playing pro football. He does not have the beef to be playing that sport just like most guys in the NBA.

So many top level sports come down to specialization. For example, think of the strongest guys in the NFL....you don't see them in the Worlds Strongest Man competitions....not even close. And vice versa.
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Iverson would get *annihilated* playing pro football. He does not have the beef to be playing that sport just like most guys in the NBA.
Presumably he would have worked to put on more weight had he opted to go into football. Nevertheless, I think he definitely belongs in the conversation because he was voted the best high school basketball and football player in the nation. How many other players in the NBA have been ranked #1 nationally in any sport other than basketball? It's one thing to be good at multiple sports (Bo Jackson, Charlie Ward, John Lucas, etc.) and another to be considered the best at more than one sport (even if it is just at the high school level).

Quote:
Iverson attended Bethel High School and was a dual-sport athlete; he earned The Associated Press High School Player of the Year award in both football and basketball, and won the Division AAA Virginia State Championship in both sports.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_iverson
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
But that's only when comparing him to two of the best athletes the world has ever known. That's like saying: "Stephen Hawking was never 'that' smart, even in his intellectual prime. Not in comparison to Newton, and def not in comparison to Einstein." How many 6'6-6'8 players in history can you name that were faster than Kobe?
Exactly, but I'm not comparing him to anyone but those two. Of course Kobe is fast compared to other 6'6-6'7 players. Was he faster than either Jordan or Lebron in their athletic primes? No, although Kobe moves laterally better than Lebron, who is a beefier, heavier player. He's not faster end to end, that's for sure. And, if you look at some early Jordan, he possessed cat-like reflexes. It's not simply a case of a line sprint, or who can run the 40 yard faster, or some other tangible stat. You can simply 'see' that a young Jordan was faster, quicker reflexes, than Kobe in the way he moved, the way he reacted, getting to the rim. Which is not to say Kobe is a slouch in any of those aspects. He's just not Jordan. He's not 'far' off, but he's not better. In my opinion.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post

I actually think Kobe is a better lateral mover than Jordan though Jordan was probably faster.
There's no metric available that can qualify that one way or the other. An eye-test tells me that Jordan was quicker and faster, laterally or otherwise. Just my opinion, having witnessed both in their primes.
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
He's not faster than Jordan unless you are mentally focused on Jordan in his 30's which can happen. Seriously go find some you-tube of Jordan in his *youth* where he'd blow by people and then dunk on the center....and that was back when handchecking was legal which REALLY slows down a players moves when they can just shove you.
Haha. I'm not that young, man. You also have to consider that the NBA back in the 80s was not as athletic as today's NBA. In many of those highlights he's blowing by somebody like Kelly Tripucka or dunking on someone like Mark Eaton. I wouldn't consider those guys world-class athletes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Dominique Wilkins matches up very nicely against Lebron in terms of size, speed athleticism IMO.
'Nique was phenomenal. But I don't think he was quite as good an athlete as Lebron.
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Haha. I'm not that young, man. You also have to consider that the NBA back in the 80s was not as athletic as today's NBA. In many of those highlights he's blowing by somebody like Kelly Tripucka or dunking on someone like Mark Eaton. I wouldn't consider those guys world-class athletes.
Fair point. But then even if you look at Jordan in the late 90's when he was past his athletic prime, he was still very quick, and the league was very athletic by that point( guys like Grant Hill,Latrell Sprewell, Eddie Jones, Penny Hardway, in their athletic primes). We can perhaps extrapolate from that how the 80's Jordan would match up in the 90's, or now.
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
Fair point. But then even if you look at Jordan in the late 90's when he was past his athletic prime, he was still very quick, and the league was very athletic by that point( guys like Grant Hill,Latrell Sprewell, Eddie Jones, Penny Hardway, in their athletic primes). We can perhaps extrapolate from that how the 80's Jordan would match up in the 90's, or now.
No argument there. As far as I'm concerned, Michael Jordan was God wearing sneakers. I think nearly all of the execptional athletes from back in the day (David Thompson, Elgin Baylor, Julius Erving, Wilkins, etc.) would do well in today's game. Genes are probably the biggest factor in athleticism and God didn't start making good genes in 1979. There have always been great athletes. Always will be.

However, I think the average NBA player is more athletic today. Jordan definitely would have had it tougher. I mean, did Craig Ehlo really stand any chance whatsoever of blocking his shot in that playoff game? Replace Ehlo with Richard Jefferson or any number of great athlete/average-skill ball players and that whole play sequence would have probably been completely different.
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post

However, I think the average NBA player is more athletic today. Jordan definitely would have had it tougher. I mean, did Craig Ehlo really stand any chance whatsoever of blocking his shot in that playoff game? Replace Ehlo with Richard Jefferson or any number of great athlete/average-skill ball players and that whole play sequence would have probably been completely different.
Perhaps, but even then Jordan in today's game would still be a standout athlete. Not to the degree of the 80's, but he'd certainly still have a wowing effect. Jordan's skill level across the board is still more or less unparalleled( Kobe is of course in the ballpark), so a 'lesser' advantage in athleticism is made up with tremendous skills and fundamentals. He was, afterall, able to drop 40 and 50 points when he was 39-40 years old, and he wasn't CLOSE to the player or athlete he was 10 years before, and that was at a point when guys like Kobe, Vince, Tmac, Garnett, etc etc were in at or near their peaks. That was also a very tough defensive era, from 00 to 04, and Jordan was still very much an all-star player.

I have no doubt 28 year old Jordan would dominate to the same extent today, and hell now you can't even hand-check players. In Jordan's day, you had guys like John Starks sticking an elbow in his ribs or using his hands on Jordan's hip as legit defensive tools, making it even harder for players to break free. Mike today would probably be getting 10 points a night just off free-throws, and unlike his modern-day 'equivalents' in guys like Wade or Lebron, Jordan had too many facets to his offensive game which you had to respect. Wade doesn't post much, and his midrange game is erratic. Lebron can slash and finish as well as anyone, but his jumpshot can sometimes abandon him, and he can only dream of being the post offensive weapon Jordan was. Of course we're now going a bit away from the 'speed' conversation.
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,284 posts, read 26,300,037 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
Perhaps, but even then Jordan in today's game would still be a standout athlete. Not to the degree of the 80's, but he'd certainly still have a wowing effect. Jordan's skill level across the board is still more or less unparalleled( Kobe is of course in the ballpark), so a 'lesser' advantage in athleticism is made up with tremendous skills and fundamentals. He was, afterall, able to drop 40 and 50 points when he was 39-40 years old, and he wasn't CLOSE to the player or athlete he was 10 years before, and that was at a point when guys like Kobe, Vince, Tmac, Garnett, etc etc were in at or near their peaks. That was also a very tough defensive era, from 00 to 04, and Jordan was still very much an all-star player.
Good points. He was the MAN. No doubt about it. He really set the standard as far as physical training (Remember the scene from He Got Game where Denzel says, "What do you think Jordan's doing? I bet you he's lifting weights right now!). He was too ferocious for most of these guys in the League today.

Could you see Kobe getting in Charles Barkely's face?


Jordan Vs Barkley Trash Talk Classic - YouTube
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Haha, I remember that encounter like it was yesterday. Good times.....
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