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Old 01-25-2012, 07:42 PM
 
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Looking very very likely at this point IMO.
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Old 01-25-2012, 07:55 PM
 
Location: spring tx
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season is young but i tend to agree.
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
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If the season ended right now I think LeBron would be the MVP, but Kobe and Durant are right there too. Imo it's between those three.
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Old 01-26-2012, 02:25 AM
 
Location: BMORE!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 719inhere View Post
If the season ended right now I think LeBron would be the MVP, but Kobe and Durant are right there too. Imo it's between those three.
We wont get another ring
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Kobe isn't ahead of Durant. At this stage, season ends today, you could very easily give MVP to Durant even though Lebron has better across the board numbers. The Thunder has the better record, and one can make the argument that Lebron is working with more ,even with Wade on the shelf. The Thunder are younger, and not a lot of firepower beyond Durant, Westbrook, and Harden, and yet OKC is currently sitting at the top of the league record-wise. The Lakers....well they're currently the 8th seed in the West. Yeah, you read that right....the 8th seed. No way Kobe is MVP, or even a runner-up candidate right now, despite his personal resurgence.
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Old 01-26-2012, 07:41 AM
 
52,079 posts, read 41,881,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 719inhere View Post
If the season ended right now I think LeBron would be the MVP, but Kobe and Durant are right there too. Imo it's between those three.
Won't be Kobe, that's not how they give the award out. (Points to Steve Nash )

In General here is the voting logic for MVP:
1) You have to be on the team with one of the top records in the NBA.
2) Top player on that team
3) Unless it's really glaring, spread the award around.

It's not the best player award.

Top records will be the Heat, Bulls and OKC. Rose won last year, Lebron has won before multiply....Durant hasn't. Durant is also one of the top 5 or so player in the league and the east will have more fractured voting with Rose, Lebron, Howard etc.
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Old 01-26-2012, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Durant is also a media darling, and well the OKC are a team built through shrewd drafting, so it's a feel good story there ( not to say Durant's play isn't MVP worthy, he's a legit contender). Durant is also playing with a point guard who is as happy to call his own number as someone else's, without Westbrook I think his numbers would be even higher.

I personally think OKC would be REALLY dangerous with a pass first guy like Rondo running things, but you'd need another scoring threat in the starting lineup to offset the loss of Westbrook's offensive production. Harden could ably fill that role, but then you're leaving the bench thin. I still think OKC is 'one' player away from winning it all, a legit offensive post presence would, IMO, put them over the top. And, it doesn't have to be someone like Dwight Howard, a Marc Gasol-caliber talent would do it.
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
Kobe isn't ahead of Durant. At this stage, season ends today, you could very easily give MVP to Durant even though Lebron has better across the board numbers. The Thunder has the better record, and one can make the argument that Lebron is working with more ,even with Wade on the shelf. The Thunder are younger, and not a lot of firepower beyond Durant, Westbrook, and Harden, and yet OKC is currently sitting at the top of the league record-wise. The Lakers....well they're currently the 8th seed in the West. Yeah, you read that right....the 8th seed. No way Kobe is MVP, or even a runner-up candidate right now, despite his personal resurgence.
But the Heat do have one of the best records in the game, and LeBrons stats are way better than Durants. LeBron is having a career year so far.

LeBron's stats
37.4 minutes per game, 29.1 ppg, 8 rebounds per game, 7.1 assists per game, 54.5% FG percentage, 40.7% on his 3s (and he hasn't been taking as many), 74.7% on his FTs, 2.1 steals per game, .80 blocks, 3.9 turnovers per game, PER(Player Efficiency Rating) of 33.55

Kevin Durant's stats
36.4 minutes per game, 25.7 ppg, 7.2 rebounds per game, 3.3 assists per game, 50.8% FG percentage, 32.5% 3 point percentage, 82.2% FT percentage, 1.3 steals per game, 1.2 blocks per game, 3.7 turnovers per game, PER of 26.54

Kobe Bryant's stats
38.2 minutes per game, 30.2 ppg, 5.7 rebounds per game, 5.6 assists per game, 45.4% FG percentage, 26.8% 3 point percentage, 84% FT percentage, 1.2 steals per game, .40 blocks per game, 3.8 turnovers per game, PER of 26.44

LeBron is better than both in rebounding, passing, FG percentage, 3 point percentage, steals, and PER.

Durant is better than both only in blocks. He's better than Kobe in FG percentage and 3 point percentage, rebounding, steals, blocks, and PER.

Kobe is better than both in points per game and FT shooting.

Durant turns the ball over more than he gets an assist.

Durant's team has the best record, but Lebron and Kobe's teams both have over .500 records. The Heat and Lakers Strength of Schedule's have been tougher than the Thunder's, and the Heats Margin of victory is better than that of the Thunder. In the Laker's case, it's been way tougher.

Don't get me wrong, I think any of the three would be deserving. LeBron's stats are just way better though.
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,884,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 719inhere View Post
But the Heat do have one of the best records in the game, and LeBrons stats are way better than Durants. LeBron is having a career year so far.

LeBron's stats
37.4 minutes per game, 29.1 ppg, 8 rebounds per game, 7.1 assists per game, 54.5% FG percentage, 40.7% on his 3s (and he hasn't been taking as many), 74.7% on his FTs, 2.1 steals per game, .80 blocks, 3.9 turnovers per game, PER(Player Efficiency Rating) of 33.55

Kevin Durant's stats
36.4 minutes per game, 25.7 ppg, 7.2 rebounds per game, 3.3 assists per game, 50.8% FG percentage, 32.5% 3 point percentage, 82.2% FT percentage, 1.3 steals per game, 1.2 blocks per game, 3.7 turnovers per game, PER of 26.54

Kobe Bryant's stats
38.2 minutes per game, 30.2 ppg, 5.7 rebounds per game, 5.6 assists per game, 45.4% FG percentage, 26.8% 3 point percentage, 84% FT percentage, 1.2 steals per game, .40 blocks per game, 3.8 turnovers per game, PER of 26.44

LeBron is better than both in rebounding, passing, FG percentage, 3 point percentage, steals, and PER.

Durant is better than both only in blocks. He's better than Kobe in FG percentage and 3 point percentage, rebounding, steals, blocks, and PER.

Kobe is better than both in points per game and FT shooting.

Durant turns the ball over more than he gets an assist.

Durant's team has the best record, but Lebron and Kobe's teams both have over .500 records. The Heat and Lakers Strength of Schedule's have been tougher than the Thunder's, and the Heats Margin of victory is better than that of the Thunder. In the Laker's case, it's been way tougher.

Don't get me wrong, I think any of the three would be deserving. LeBron's stats are just way better though.
In a situation where you have a few players playing at an MVP level, team record is a tie-breaker. It cannot be discounted than Durant's team has the best record, or that they've played with more consistency than the Heat( and yes, the loss of Wade should factor in this, but it's not as if the Heat are scrubs with Wade on the bench).

As far as stats go, I should remind you that Derrick Rose won MVP last year. Is he the best player in the NBA? No. Did he have the best stats a season ago? No. Didn't matter... the combination of his stats, team record, and other intangible factors come into play. If you're going to use the PER argument, you may as well hand Lebron the next 5 MVPs, because he's always going to lead the NBA in PER for the duration of his prime.

Stats cannot be looked at without a bit of context. Lebron enjoys a less than 1 rebounding advantage, despite mixing it up in the paint far more than Durant and being a physically superior player. Durant's rebounding average of 7+ is perfectly reasonable for a guy with his body build and his game being largely perimeter-based. That's pretty much a moot point.

Passing. Well we all know that Lebron's a superior passer. He also controls the Heat offense, so in that regard he's simply in a position to amass higher assist totals. He also plays with more offensive weapons than Durant. Now let me clarify, Durant as a playmaker isn't at Lebron's level, even if he handled the ball more. He doesn't have the passing acumen, or the ball-handling, or the mentality. He is effectively the definition of a pure scorer. Lebron's advantage in field goal percentage is a result of less range shots, and more forays to the rim. Durant's game is far more perimeter based, shoots a lot more 3's, so the lower percentage is easy enough to explain, though 50% shooting for Durant isn't exactly something to sneeze about, given the nature of his offensive attack. Steals, blocks, yadda yadda, all advantage Lebron. We already know that's going to be the case every year, no big surprises there. In fact, in my first post I already acknowledged Lebron's across the board statistical superiority, so it's not really a point of disagreement.

Having said all that, Durant is having an MVP caliber season. His stats are MVP worthy, and the Thunder have the best record in the NBA. At this point, it's either Lebron 1a to Durant's 1b, or vice versa. Kobe.....is firmly entrenched behind both players. His 4 game streak of 40 points aside, the Lakers have a 11-8 record and sit in 8th place. That's not going to get Kobe the MVP, despite how well he's playing individually compared to last season. In fact, I'd argue that Kobe is 4th, and Dwight is 3rd.

The bottomline is, and I'll leave you with this question: which team suffers more: taking Lebron off the Heat and leaving Wade( of course assuming he's healthy and on form, and Bosh, who in case no-one noticed is playing very well this year), or taking Durant off the Thunder and leaving Westbrook and Harden? The Heat, with a healthy Wade and Bosh, are at worst the 3rd seed in the East. How far down the totem pole does OKC fall if you remove Durant? Likely battling for the 7th-8th seed in the West.

Last edited by Roman77; 01-26-2012 at 09:01 AM..
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
478 posts, read 596,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
In a situation where you have a few players playing at an MVP level, team record is a tie-breaker. It cannot be discounted than Durant's team has the best record, or that they've played with more consistency than the Heat( and yes, the loss of Wade should factor in this, but it's not as if the Heat are scrubs with Wade on the bench).

As far as stats go, I should remind you that Derrick Rose won MVP last year. Is he the best player in the NBA? No. Did he have the best stats a season ago? No. Didn't matter... the combination of his stats, team record, and other intangible factors come into play. If you're going to use the PER argument, you may as well hand Lebron the next 5 MVPs, because he's always going to lead the NBA in PER for the duration of his prime.

Stats cannot be looked at without a bit of context. Lebron enjoys a less than 1 rebounding advantage, despite mixing it up in the paint far more than Durant and being a physically superior player. Durant's rebounding average of 7+ is perfectly reasonable for a guy with his body build and his game being largely perimeter-based. That's pretty much a moot point.

Passing. Well we all know that Lebron's a superior passer. He also controls the Heat offense, so in that regard he's simply in a position to amass higher assist totals. He also plays with more offensive weapons than Durant. Now let me clarify, Durant as a playmaker isn't at Lebron's level, even if he handled the ball more. He doesn't have the passing acumen, or the ball-handling, or the mentality. He is effectively the definition of a pure scorer. Lebron's advantage in field goal percentage is a result of less range shots, and more forays to the rim. Durant's game is far more perimeter based, shoots a lot more 3's, so the lower percentage is easy enough to explain, though 50% shooting for Durant isn't exactly something to sneeze about, given the nature of his offensive attack. Steals, blocks, yadda yadda, all advantage Lebron. We already know that's going to be the case every year, no big surprises there.

Having said all that, Durant is having an MVP caliber season. His stats are MVP worthy, and the Thunder have the best record in the NBA. At this point, it's either Lebron 1a to Durant's 1b, or vice versa. Kobe.....is firmly entrenched behind both players. His 4 game streak of 40 points aside, the Lakers have a 11-8 record and sit in 8th place. That's not going to get Kobe the MVP, despite how well he's playing individually compared to last season. In fact, I'd argue that Kobe is 4th, and Dwight is 3rd.

The bottomline is, and I'll leave you with this question: which team suffers more: taking Lebron off the Heat and leaving Wade( of course assuming he's healthy and on form, and Bosh, who in case no-one noticed is playing very well this year), or taking Durant off the Thunder and leaving Westbrook and Harden? The Heat, with a healthy Wade and Bosh, are at worst the 3rd seed in the East. How far down the totem pole does OKC fall if you remove Durant? Likely battling for the 7th-8th seed in the West.
I do agree there, a healthy Wade and Bosh without Lebron, and the Heat would still be one of the top teams. I also agree that the Thunder would fall far down the standings without Durant. Like I said, I think if Durant wins the MVP, he's more than deserving of it. The same could be said for Lebron though.
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