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Old 01-27-2012, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Ro cha cha, NY
3,061 posts, read 4,199,781 times
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The New York Knicks once again, made some of the worst moves in history and no Isiah Thomas to blame. WTF were they thinking last year and this year. You took a team that was gelling and gave away some good players like Andy Rautins (who never got to show his three point ability), Gallinari, and whoever or whatever else for a non defensive minded Carmello Anthony. They were finally having chemistry and they threw it away.

Then to make matters worse, instead of getting Chris Paul who wanted to be a Knick, they go after no offense-over-rated defensive player in Tyson Chandler. Wtf were they thinking? This team stinks now. They lost Chauncey Billups who personally I love as a point guard (don't care how old he is), Gallinari who is getting better and better and a team that actually was cohesive, for this messy without a point guard group now. Ok, we have a half player in Baron Davis left. Who know's what's left of him and Mike Bibby who shouldn't even be in the league anymore.

Seriously, what are they thinking? They thought bringing in Tyson Chandler was going to bring the defense they so badly needed. Wrong! He is a bust and was over-rated to begin with. Then losing what they lost to acguire Mello, who's never been a team player was absurd. They took a team that was gaining chemistry and basically tore it apart to start all over again. Then you have the chance for Chris Paul and instead you go after Tyson Chandler???...OMG, what is wrong with them? You can't win without a legit point guard. They ignored the best one in the game CP3, and basically gave away Billups for a little arbitrary money..I just don't know what to think anymore about this team. You can't just add one over-rated defensive player to the mix and expect the whole team to start playing defense..I like Mello, heck he helped my favorite basketball team win a championship, but lets face it, in eight and a half years of playing, he hasn't been out of the first round in the playoffs. Look how good Denver looked since they've cut ties with him. Sometimes, teams are better, addition by subtraction.

There only hope is to land Dwight Howard. I don't care if they have to get rid of mello, get him and start building around him. If either Stoudemire or Mello is left with Howard and they still need a point guard, then that team will be better than what it is now.

Year in and year out, you can say that the Knicks really know how to screw a team up..It's pathetic how bad they are..What are your thoughts? Sorry so long..
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Old 01-27-2012, 01:57 PM
 
51,928 posts, read 41,798,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supermanpansy View Post
The New York Knicks once again, made some of the worst moves in history and no Isiah Thomas to blame. WTF were they thinking last year and this year. You took a team that was gelling and gave away some good players like Andy Rautins (who never got to show his three point ability), Gallinari, and whoever or whatever else for a non defensive minded Carmello Anthony. They were finally having chemistry and they threw it away.

Then to make matters worse, instead of getting Chris Paul who wanted to be a Knick, they go after no offense-over-rated defensive player in Tyson Chandler. Wtf were they thinking? This team stinks now. They lost Chauncey Billups who personally I love as a point guard (don't care how old he is), Gallinari who is getting better and better and a team that actually was cohesive, for this messy without a point guard group now. Ok, we have a half player in Baron Davis left. Who know's what's left of him and Mike Bibby who shouldn't even be in the league anymore.

What are they thinking. They thought bringing in Tyson Chandler was going to bring the defense they so needed. Wrong. He is a bust and was over-rated. Then losing what they lost to acguire Mello was dumb. They took a team that was gaining chemistry and basically tore it apart to start all over again. Then you have the chance for Chris Paul and instead get Tyson Chandler...OMG, what is wrong with them? You can't win without a legit point guard. They ignored the best one in the game CP3, and basically gave away Billups..I just don't know what to think anymore about this team. You can't just add one over-rated defensive player to the mix and expect the whole team to start playing defense..I like Mello, heck he helped my favorite basketball team win a championship, but lets face it, in eight and a half years of playing, he hasn't been out of the first round in the playoffs. Look how good Denver looked since they've cut ties with him. Sometimes, teams are better addition by subtraction.

There only hope is to land Dwight Howard. I don't care if they have to get rid of mello, get him and start building around him. If either Stoudemire or Mello is left with Howard and they better get a guard, that team will be better than what it is now.

Year in and year out, you can say that the Knicks really know how to screw a team up..It's pathetic how bad they are..What are your thoughts? Sorry so long..
1) You may have had to great of expectations. Remember, the Knicks not too long ago were one of the worst teams in the NBA....they're A LOT better than they were and had to get what they could get.

2) It's funny hearing Knicks fans talking about whom they are going to get next. I had some old threads here about how they were going to get LEbron because NY is the greatest place to play blah blah blah. Sorry, you guys aren't getting Howard.

3) Give the current squad some time to gel, they are wayyyyy too flawed with Amare and Melo to be a contender (I wrote that a long time ago) but at least being a playoff team is the next stepping stone of rebuilding a team that had fallen to the level of a laughing stock. Rome wasn't built in a day.

4) It's not Chandlers fault he is the only guy on the team that can play a lick of D. The Knicks are starting to do a better job on D but still are sub-par.

Take a look at this list sorted by opponent FG%. Notice which teams are at the top of the list? Good ones. Ones with lotsa wins.
2011-12 Regular Season NBA Team Stats and League Leaders - Defense Per Game - National Basketball Association - ESPN
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Old 01-27-2012, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Ro cha cha, NY
3,061 posts, read 4,199,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
1) You may have had to great of expectations. Remember, the Knicks not too long ago were one of the worst teams in the NBA....they're A LOT better than they were and had to get what they could get.

2) It's funny hearing Knicks fans talking about whom they are going to get next. I had some old threads here about how they were going to get LEbron because NY is the greatest place to play blah blah blah. Sorry, you guys aren't getting Howard.

3) Give the current squad some time to gel, they are wayyyyy too flawed with Amare and Melo to be a contender (I wrote that a long time ago) but at least being a playoff team is the next stepping stone of rebuilding a team that had fallen to the level of a laughing stock. Rome wasn't built in a day.

4) It's not Chandlers fault he is the only guy on the team that can play a lick of D. The Knicks are starting to do a better job on D but still are sub-par.

Take a look at this list sorted by opponent FG%. Notice which teams are at the top of the list? Good ones. Ones with lotsa wins.
2011-12 Regular Season NBA Team Stats and League Leaders - Defense Per Game - National Basketball Association - ESPN

I'll respond to your points honestly.

response to point 1) I understand they were one of the worst teams for ten years; however, last year before the trade for Mello they were finally starting to play like a team..A team.

2)I'm going by what I seen recently on sportscenter. There were talks that Dwight Howard wants to go to NY. Yet they were looking at the fact that they might have to deal Mello instead of Stoudemire because Stoudemire is injury prone, and hasn't looked so good. The idea was Chandler and Stat for Howard. But now it looks more like it might be Mello and Chandler for Howard..Assuming that's an accurate report.

3)I understand time to gel, but without a decent point guard they can have an eternity for that to happen, and it won't happen. The thing that bothers me is that they had Billups who is a great floor general and gave him away for practically nothing. If nothing else, he has atleast two more good years, whereas by then their might be some better guards to go after. I understand about giving teams time, but let's be honest Chandler wasn't a need like they thought. He is over-rated defensively. And he brings nothing to the table offensively. You need more than one player to play defense, or your still going to have a bad defensive team. Which they do. And let's be honest, they looked better last year after the trade for Mello, still having Billups then they do this year acguiring Chandler. And they didn't have any time to gel last year.

4) That's exactly my point. It's not Chandlers fault that he's the only player that can play defense. But before I elaborate on that point, Chandler is an over-rated defensive player anyway. But why would you ignore the best point guard in the game (CP3) who wanted to come there for one defensive player. D'antoni's system isn't really about defense. They should have figured out what they wanted to be. A team about defense, which if that is the case, you might as well gut half the team. Or a team that's about scoring alot and transition. Which is what D'antoni's system really is. You can't have both the way D'antoni's system is set up. They've created a very lopsided team. See where I'm coming from. They f'ed up. As usual. They had a chance at the best point guard in the league, someone who could have fed Amaire and Carmello in their sweet spots. If nothing else, they still could have kept Billups (whom I personally still admire, still a big time clutch shooter) for atleast another two years until something better came along...

Last edited by supermanpansy; 01-27-2012 at 03:22 PM..
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Old 01-27-2012, 07:25 PM
 
51,928 posts, read 41,798,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supermanpansy View Post
I'll respond to your points honestly.

response to point 1) I understand they were one of the worst teams for ten years; however, last year before the trade for Mello they were finally starting to play like a team..A team.

2)I'm going by what I seen recently on sportscenter. There were talks that Dwight Howard wants to go to NY. Yet they were looking at the fact that they might have to deal Mello instead of Stoudemire because Stoudemire is injury prone, and hasn't looked so good. The idea was Chandler and Stat for Howard. But now it looks more like it might be Mello and Chandler for Howard..Assuming that's an accurate report.

3)I understand time to gel, but without a decent point guard they can have an eternity for that to happen, and it won't happen. The thing that bothers me is that they had Billups who is a great floor general and gave him away for practically nothing. If nothing else, he has atleast two more good years, whereas by then their might be some better guards to go after. I understand about giving teams time, but let's be honest Chandler wasn't a need like they thought. He is over-rated defensively. And he brings nothing to the table offensively. You need more than one player to play defense, or your still going to have a bad defensive team. Which they do. And let's be honest, they looked better last year after the trade for Mello, still having Billups then they do this year acguiring Chandler. And they didn't have any time to gel last year.

4) That's exactly my point. It's not Chandlers fault that he's the only player that can play defense. But before I elaborate on that point, Chandler is an over-rated defensive player anyway. But why would you ignore the best point guard in the game (CP3) who wanted to come there for one defensive player. D'antoni's system isn't really about defense. They should have figured out what they wanted to be. A team about defense, which if that is the case, you might as well gut half the team. Or a team that's about scoring alot and transition. Which is what D'antoni's system really is. You can't have both the way D'antoni's system is set up. They've created a very lopsided team. See where I'm coming from. They f'ed up. As usual. They had a chance at the best point guard in the league, someone who could have fed Amaire and Carmello in their sweet spots. If nothing else, they still could have kept Billups (whom I personally still admire, still a big time clutch shooter) for atleast another two years until something better came along...
1) Howard is NOT going to go to the knicks in exchange for Carmelo and Chandler. That's out of the frying pan and into the fire in terms of team talent.

2) CP3 would have required trade bait. The Knicks gave all of it away to get......Melo and Amare. They had nothing to trade for CP3, please tell me HOW they could have gotten CP3 and kept Melo and Amare.

Again, when you are so far in the toilet, you have to crawl your way up and in the NBA it might take a decade.
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Old 01-28-2012, 01:00 PM
FBJ
 
Location: Tall Building down by the river
39,615 posts, read 50,306,870 times
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Does Melo ever pass the ball?


BTW: they played very well without him last night in Miami
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Old 01-28-2012, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Ro cha cha, NY
3,061 posts, read 4,199,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
1) Howard is NOT going to go to the knicks in exchange for Carmelo and Chandler. That's out of the frying pan and into the fire in terms of team talent.

2) CP3 would have required trade bait. The Knicks gave all of it away to get......Melo and Amare. They had nothing to trade for CP3, please tell me HOW they could have gotten CP3 and kept Melo and Amare.

Again, when you are so far in the toilet, you have to crawl your way up and in the NBA it might take a decade.

1. Orlando has to trade Howard or they get nothing. Getting Stat and Chandler is about the best offer their going to get. Insiders have stated this. I don't think your an NBA insider, so stop acting like you know it all.

2. CP3 would have required about the same as what was required for Chandler. Because the Knicks have so many guards, he might have been easier to acquire. It wasn't impossible by any stretch. The Knicks were in a better position than many other teams to acquire him. What did LA give up to acquire him???

As far as starting from the bottom. In which you keep bringing up. Once again, the Knicks were starting to look good last season before the Mello trade. They were gaining chemistry and players knew their role. This team is lost. What's your answer for basically giving away Chauncey Billups? I don't see you addressing all of my points. Just the ones you want to address. Which I think your far off. It doesn't take every team ten years to get better. Look at Boston. Went from a bottom of the barell team, acquired two players and won the Championship.
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Old 01-28-2012, 05:51 PM
 
51,928 posts, read 41,798,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supermanpansy View Post
1. Orlando has to trade Howard or they get nothing. Getting Stat and Chandler is about the best offer their going to get. Insiders have stated this. I don't think your an NBA insider, so stop acting like you know it all.

2. CP3 would have required about the same as what was required for Chandler. Because the Knicks have so many guards, he might have been easier to acquire. It wasn't impossible by any stretch. The Knicks were in a better position than many other teams to acquire him. What did LA give up to acquire him???

As far as starting from the bottom. In which you keep bringing up. Once again, the Knicks were starting to look good last season before the Mello trade. They were gaining chemistry and players knew their role. This team is lost. What's your answer for basically giving away Chauncey Billups? I don't see you addressing all of my points. Just the ones you want to address. Which I think your far off. It doesn't take every team ten years to get better. Look at Boston. Went from a bottom of the barell team, acquired two players and won the Championship.
1) My point is more that Dwight I'm pretty sure has veto power on trades. Dwight would want to come to NY and play with 1 star + crappo? The NBA "insiders" are often pundits playing to a fan base, many of them were the same guys talking about Lebron to the Knicks. It's like color commentary for the home team. Others will just say *anything* as long as it's exciting or controversial to draw attention.

1b) Melo may have a similar clause and there are other teams with things to offer that would have a decent core left over after trade.

2) I respectfully disagree. NO got A LOT for CP3....and what did NY give up for Chandler in trade? Go ahead and list the two, perhaps my memory is failing me.
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Old 01-28-2012, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Ro cha cha, NY
3,061 posts, read 4,199,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
1) My point is more that Dwight I'm pretty sure has veto power on trades. Dwight would want to come to NY and play with 1 star + crappo? The NBA "insiders" are often pundits playing to a fan base, many of them were the same guys talking about Lebron to the Knicks. It's like color commentary for the home team. Others will just say *anything* as long as it's exciting or controversial to draw attention.

1b) Melo may have a similar clause and there are other teams with things to offer that would have a decent core left over after trade.

2) I respectfully disagree. NO got A LOT for CP3....and what did NY give up for Chandler in trade? Go ahead and list the two, perhaps my memory is failing me.

Melo doesn't have a clause. He is now the focus along with Chandler because Orlando is a little weary of stat and his lackluster performances this year as well as constant injuries..

Why don't you tell me what NO got. I'm not being a wise arse. I didn't think it was too much. Maybe I'm wrong. But the Knicks have cleared a lot of cap money over the last few years. They still have alot more than many other teams left. Personally, I didn't care for the Mello trade. As for Chandler. I new it would never work. Not in D'antoni's system. He's too much of a run and gun type coach. And Chandler is a serious scoring handicap.. Everyone knows he doesn't focus on defense.
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Old 01-29-2012, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Long Island,New York
8,163 posts, read 13,184,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supermanpansy View Post
Melo doesn't have a clause. He is now the focus along with Chandler because Orlando is a little weary of stat and his lackluster performances this year as well as constant injuries..

Why don't you tell me what NO got. I'm not being a wise arse. I didn't think it was too much. Maybe I'm wrong. But the Knicks have cleared a lot of cap money over the last few years. They still have alot more than many other teams left. Personally, I didn't care for the Mello trade. As for Chandler. I new it would never work. Not in D'antoni's system. He's too much of a run and gun type coach. And Chandler is a serious scoring handicap.. Everyone knows he doesn't focus on defense.
The team has talent but I agree about the run and gun. I'm a Warriors fan and watching Don Nelson's teams for years that had solid scorers with great ability to run the floor but with less attention to defense. The team is a contradiction to the system. A good coach would be able to adapt his players to his style or change to adapt to the team he has.
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Old 01-29-2012, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Here or There
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It is funny how the Knicks are struggling...and having to hope that Baron Davis is riding in on a white horse to stop this tailspin...well...
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