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Old 02-14-2012, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Fort Mill, SC
2,532 posts, read 2,946,077 times
Reputation: 1357

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2008 View Post
Point guards in the NBA are too good of ball handlers to be pressed as on example.
Zero full court pressure and they still turn the ball over...
Westbrook 4.3 TOs
Williams 4.2 TOs
Wall 4.1 TOs
Rondo 3.8 TOs
Nash 3.6 TOs

Best ball handlers? Questionable.

Quote:
The only reason those players went to Kentucky is because they were forced to by the rule changes. In the near future those players may decide to play in europe instead of playing in the NCAA.
They can do it then and now. See Brandon Jennings. The return rate isn't that high thus why most choose college over it.

Quote:
College basketball has deterioated drastically in the past couple of years, and now with these teams switching conferences every year, it is almost unwatchable.
Not sure where you are going with that.

Lastly...
Quote:
The level of play in the pros is vastly superior to that of college.
Fun with videos: 2 Examples of NBA Finest in 2012...

NBA fail of the year - Rondo knocks-out Pietrus (2012.02.03) - YouTube

NBA Tony Allen Flop (Flop Of The Year) - YouTube
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Old 02-14-2012, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
17,032 posts, read 26,876,260 times
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The one and done rule for the NBA has killed college hoops. You dont get to see guys develop anymore.
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Fort Mill, SC
2,532 posts, read 2,946,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oildog View Post
The one and done rule for the NBA has killed college hoops. You dont get to see guys develop anymore.
It isn't any different than before outside a handful of players hoping on a team for that 1 year, which for the most part points to where Calipari coaches at. Prior these guys would just go ahead and enter the draft skipping college... so if anything it raised the playing level with more talent in the pool.

3 players off the top of my head could have been first round picks last year (i.e. 1 and done) but they chose to return: Perry Jones, Jared Sullinger, and Harrison Barnes. They are rumored for this upcoming draft but who is to say they don't return for their junior seasons.

2011 Draft's first round saw 15 upper classman, 5 foreign, and 4 sophomores go in it... so only 6 remain and they were 1 and dones... 2 came from Calipari's squad (i.e. a coach that goes after these type of players; most schools refuse to go after them). Why I brought it up... It showed you got to see 19 players develop in first round NBA draft picks since they played multiple years.
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:24 AM
 
4,749 posts, read 3,609,110 times
Reputation: 3225
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncopus99 View Post
Those new rules favor the offensive player. 3 steps don't get called. The player can practically run over the defensive player and the defensive player gets the foul. Let's not forget the "Paul Pierce" (i.e. launch yourself into a player autofoul). Let's take the other side of the ball... the "Manu" i.e. flopping aka an academy award for acting.

All these scenarios took a great 80/90s NBA and destroyed it.
I miss some of the great teams like the Lakers, Celtics, and Bulls of that era, but the game is more wide-open and more exciting to watch now. The old style of play where players could basically play NFL style bump-and-run defense like Lester Hayes was not good for the game -- that's not real basketball. The only time it was fun to watch was when the Knicks played the Heat in the Pat Riley era. But this game is definitely better. It's more in tune with the spirit of the game and how it is supposed to be played.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ncopus99 View Post
The other thing you brought up... "talent more evenly distributed"...
Are you serious? It is all stacked on what 5-6 teams leaving some teams with zero players the casual person could even recognize i.e. bobcats, cavs, nets, toronto, etc.
I disagree. Look, there are always a crop of elite teams, but more than anytime I can remember, it is possible for a number 7 or 8 seed in the playoffs to go in and pose a serious challenge to a number 1 or 2 seed. I think there's enough talent distribution in the top half of the league for it to be competitive. Obviously, there are always going to be teams that have to fight to win five out of their first 40 games, but that's always been the case.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ncopus99 View Post
As for your last sentence, I actually think the NBA is more amateurish. In college, they actually run full court press (I saw it for the first time in a very long time in the pros the other night... looked out of place). They run different defensive schemes (do they even run any in the pros??). Offenses set up schemes by running screens, etc. The NBA is about rushing the points vs setups. In addition, the only things ran (for the most part) are high pick/rolls and isos.

P.S. Kemba Walker has been the only shining point to the Bobcats i.e. UConn's star in March Madness last year. No talent... hmm...

Fun Fact: Ex-Butler star Gordon Haywood has been doing alright in Utah this year.
College basketball is just not good basketball anymore. Not as good as it used to be anyway. I still like to watch the Duke Blue Devils or Kentucky Wildcats play once in a while, but overall the game is just not as good.

Full-court press? They don't run it because it's too easy to beat.
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Old 02-15-2012, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Fort Mill, SC
2,532 posts, read 2,946,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
I miss some of the great teams like the Lakers, Celtics, and Bulls of that era, but the game is more wide-open and more exciting to watch now. The old style of play where players could basically play NFL style bump-and-run defense like Lester Hayes was not good for the game -- that's not real basketball. The only time it was fun to watch was when the Knicks played the Heat in the Pat Riley era. But this game is definitely better. It's more in tune with the spirit of the game and how it is supposed to be played.
The NBA decided defense hurt attendence so the rules allowed more points to be score thus bring in more people. I call it like I see it. It is called "Selling Out."

Quote:
I disagree. Look, there are always a crop of elite teams, but more than anytime I can remember, it is possible for a number 7 or 8 seed in the playoffs to go in and pose a serious challenge to a number 1 or 2 seed. I think there's enough talent distribution in the top half of the league for it to be competitive. Obviously, there are always going to be teams that have to fight to win five out of their first 40 games, but that's always been the case.
Possible? East last year...
Chicago/Indiana 4-1
Miami/Philly 4-1
Boston/NY 4-0
Orlando/Hawks 4-2 (4th and 5th seeds)
The other guys didn't have a chance. Last year just like this year is an East race between Miami and Chicago. I would be really shocked if someone other than two are in the East Finals. Relating it to NCAA, I will be lucky to pick the two that came from one side of the brackets.

You say distributed in the top half... Indiana is #6 in the East. Houston is #7 in the West. In other words, part of the top half. Houston doesn't have an all-star. Hibbert for Indiana is a first time all-star. In other words, no players a random person would know.

You look at the very top. I guaranteed people know LAC's Paul and Griffin, or Miami's Lebron/Wade/Bosh, or LAL's Kobe/Pau/Bynum, or OKC's Durant and Westbrook. In fact all but Pau is an all-star this year. The teams at the very top, i.e. approx 8 teams, have all the blue chips athletes while the others try to develop players and work them as teams i.e. the two I mentioned last paragraph. But you already know that...

Quote:
Full-court press? They don't run it because it's too easy to beat.
As stated, it work in the 80s/90s when people played defense and point guards were well point guards. So who is to say it is too easy to beat now vs the players are just too lazy... I am on the side they are just lazy (until playoffs hit).

Hard to find videos of current but here is instance a team actually ran it and it worked... just saying

Los Angeles Lakers ~ Full Court Press - YouTube
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Old 02-16-2012, 08:44 AM
 
4,399 posts, read 9,058,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncopus99 View Post
The NBA decided defense hurt attendence so the rules allowed more points to be score thus bring in more people. I call it like I see it. It is called "Selling Out."
I call out it rewarding skilled players and not rewording players who aren't good enough to do anything but grab jerseys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ncopus99 View Post
As stated, it work in the 80s/90s when people played defense and point guards were well point guards. So who is to say it is too easy to beat now vs the players are just too lazy... I am on the side they are just lazy (until playoffs hit).
Everyone can have an opinion however there i no objective evidence that people don't press in the NBA because they are lazy. It is common knowledge that there is more pressing in lower levels of play than higher. It decreases from CYO to high school and high school to college, and college to the NBA. It was hard to find that clip of the Lakers pressing for a reason and successful pressing possession does not prove much in terms of its effectiveness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09VOtP44khQ

Also EA sports agrees, In NCAA basketball 2010 there is a "flop" command for Duke players(hilarious).
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Old 02-16-2012, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Fort Mill, SC
2,532 posts, read 2,946,077 times
Reputation: 1357
For every one flop in NCAA, there is 100 in the NBA. I was going to post more vidoes from this past month but I thought it was overkill since we all know it is rampant. Hell, Matt Barnes (who has flopped many times in his career) called out Blake Griffin very recently for all his flopping. Just saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2008
Everyone can have an opinion however there i no objective evidence that people don't press in the NBA because they are lazy
The laziness claim... let's take Exhibit A: Boris Diaw. Dude is chunky to say the least. For being a pro athlete he is more out of shape than Biggest Loser contestants. How do you expect this guy to press hard all game by using full court press vs standing down in a box for half a game. He is on the mentality "I get paid so I don't need to improve my game". Just one of many examples...
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Old 02-16-2012, 10:34 AM
 
4,399 posts, read 9,058,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncopus99 View Post
For every one flop in NCAA, there is 100 in the NBA. I was going to post more vidoes from this past month but I thought it was overkill since we all know it is rampant. Hell, Matt Barnes (who has flopped many times in his career) called out Blake Griffin very recently for all his flopping. Just saying.


The laziness claim... let's take Exhibit A: Boris Diaw. Dude is chunky to say the least. For being a pro athlete he is more out of shape than Biggest Loser contestants. How do you expect this guy to press hard all game by using full court press vs standing down in a box for half a game. He is on the mentality "I get paid so I don't need to improve my game". Just one of many examples...
Boris Diaw is an example of what? A fat basketball player? I will give you that. But that doesn't mean anything in terms of which has the higher quality of play. Are you trying to say that college basketball players are in better condition than the pros. That is most definitely not true. NBA player are bigger, stronger and faster, and in better shape. That is not debatable. Why do you think the NCAA game is shorter than the NBA one. This rampant laziness you keep speaking about is pretty clearly in your imagination.
And College bball players turn the ball over more than nba ones, even though they play less minutes and have less possessions(longer shot clock). And they do that because they are less skilled.
Stats
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Old 02-16-2012, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Ro cha cha, NY
3,064 posts, read 4,199,781 times
Reputation: 5386
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2008 View Post
Boris Diaw is an example of what? A fat basketball player? I will give you that. But that doesn't mean anything in terms of which has the higher quality of play. Are you trying to say that college basketball players are in better condition than the pros. That is most definitely not true. NBA player are bigger, stronger and faster, and in better shape. That is not debatable. Why do you think the NCAA game is shorter than the NBA one. This rampant laziness you keep speaking about is pretty clearly in your imagination.
And College bball players turn the ball over more than nba ones, even though they play less minutes and have less possessions(longer shot clock). And they do that because they are less skilled.
Stats

That's because there's defense being played in college.
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Old 02-16-2012, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,748,396 times
Reputation: 2809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oildog View Post
The one and done rule for the NBA has killed college hoops. You dont get to see guys develop anymore.
Really? How many one and dones are there each year? A handful on a good year? There are over 300 division I basketball teams and you have like a half dozen maybe being one and done and that has killed college hoops?

I have not seen any decrease in college basketball at all so this thread is odd to me. If anything it seems more popular than ever. It seems to me that the NBA is the one taking a hit. The only time I hear or see anything about the NBA is on ESPN and their website. Outside of that it appears the NBA is dieing. I dont know any NBA fans. I dont see it on TV at bars. I dont see it in the newspaper. If ESPN didnt exist, I wouldnt know that the NBA even was playing any longer.

But, right now, all our sports talk stations talk about is college basketball. It is talked about pretty much all day and probably will until baseball season starts and the NFL draft gets closer.
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