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Old 03-19-2012, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
And jordan was a score first kind of player and there are multiple accounts about Phil Jackson cursing him during timeouts for NOT passing the ball.
And with that in mind, why would you pair him with another score-first player in Kobe?
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Old 03-19-2012, 03:10 PM
 
Location: The "Rock"
2,551 posts, read 2,421,087 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
there are multiple accounts about Phil Jackson cursing him during timeouts for NOT passing the ball.
And this means what exactly???

I'm sure there are MORE accounts of Phil doing the same thing to Kobe.
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:01 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,777 posts, read 6,196,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
And with that in mind, why would you pair him with another score-first player in Kobe?
Show me where I said that? I think, if you have jordan, you don't need kobe...at all.
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:03 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
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Originally Posted by Mr. GE View Post
And this means what exactly???

I'm sure there are MORE accounts of Phil doing the same thing to Kobe.
If you've been following the conversation you'd see that it wasn't at all about Kobe. It was about Jordan and Magic.
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:43 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
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Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
Yes, Magic is a facilitator. That's precisely why you'd pick him. Jordan is, first and foremost, a scorer. One of the most prolific of all-time. The fact that you'd call Jordan one, makes me wonder if you're entirely sure what the term means, in Basketball lingo. Could Jordan facilitate in situations? Sure, but he's not a facilitator by nature, he's a scorer. And he's more than capable of playing off the ball, which is precisely what would happen in this scenario, as he was playing largely off the ball with Pippen directing the triangle on those Bulls teams

Let's apply some basic logic here: Jordan and Kobe are both cut from the same cloth. They're both alpha scorers. Who's going to defer to who in this situation? Why on god's green earth would you pair the two of them together? Magic and Jordan are a FAR better match, basketball wise, as they aren't redundant players and Magic's skillset is ideal for playing with a team of stars( which is what an all-time team would be). There is just no logical reason, in a basketball sense, why you'd pair Jordan and Kobe over Jordan and Magic on an 'all-time' team, or that you'd pick anyone aside from Magic to direct a team of other stars.





I never said otherwise. He's not the best at everything, which is my point. There's a number of players who are better shooters, ball-handlers, rebounders, passers at the perimeter position. Jordan was a perfect blend of skill, talent, athleticism, IQ, heart, grit, and competitiveness. It's not because he was 'the best' at everything that makes people consider him the GOAT.
Show me where I said anything about having Kobe and Jordan on the same team? Do you really think Jordan is gonna sit back and let Magic facilitate?? Honestly? His will alone won't allow to sit back and wait on Magic to get everyone else involved.. This is the same person that told his coaches that there's no "I" in "Team," but there an "I" in "wIn."
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:26 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,892,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
Show me where I said anything about having Kobe and Jordan on the same team? Do you really think Jordan is gonna sit back and let Magic facilitate?? Honestly? His will alone won't allow to sit back and wait on Magic to get everyone else involved.. This is the same person that told his coaches that there's no "I" in "Team," but there an "I" in "wIn."
Oh ok, for some reason when you were arguing about magic and Jordan, I thought it was because you were saying Kobe was a better match....my mistake.

Now that I'm clear on that part, the fact that Pippen was the facilitator for the triangle offense on those bulls title teams, pretty much means that yes, Jordan would easily 'allow' Magic to facilitate while he operates out on the wing, or in the post. Yeah Jordan was egotistical, but you're blowing it out of proportion. We're talking about an all time team here, which hypothetically means a lineup of Magic, Jordan, Bird, Duncan and Wilt/Russell/Kareem. In a situation like that, Jordan's going to be playing a different role than he was on the Bulls. In that scenario he's playing with contemporaries, and if you think his ego wouldn't allow him to, perhaps you should YouTube some footage of the 92 dream team. Jordan's ego isn't that wildly out of control that he'd be unable to adapt to having Magic run the offense. In fact, I bet he'd welcome it. Pippen's development as a point-forward freed MJ up to concentrate more on scoring, and less on having to set-up teammates. So, I happen to think the exact opposite of you here. Not only would Jordan 'allow' Magic to direct the offense, he'd welcome it.

I mean seriously, what are you going to do when picking this team? Look at Magic and say 'bah we don't need him, we have Jordan!!' Can you imagine Magic on the break with Jordan, one of the all time great finishers, running on the wings with him? No you probably can't, because you don't think they're compatible with each other. I beg to differ.

Edit: Here, watch some footage from the 92 dream team with Jordan and Magic playing together in the backcourt. Since this pairing did take place in real life ( while playing with other stars, which you can extrapolate to guess how'd they work together with other greats on an all-time team), there's no reason to debate the viability of this. This isn't some 'hypothetical' pairing; it happened, and there's no evidence of incompatibility:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j7S9cZFjX4

You'll note in this video, while Magic is bringing up the ball and setting up the offense, that Jordan is playing off the ball, cutting, setting picks, and so forth. There's plenty of evidence to contradict your theory that Magic and Jordan aren't compatible, because of Jordan's 'will' and 'ego' not 'allowing' Magic to facilitate, as you put it.

Last edited by Roman77; 03-20-2012 at 03:52 AM..
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Old 03-20-2012, 03:06 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,892,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
I think, if you have jordan, you don't need kobe...at all.
Which I said several posts up. Perhaps you missed it....more accurately, if you're picking a 12 man all-time roster, you'd have to pick Kobe as the 2nd shooting guard. It's simply redundant to have the two of them together in the backcourt, except at stretches when you may want to have a dominant two-way offensive/defensive backcourt. Otherwise, Magic and Jordan are a far better match, because Magic isn't going to be competing with Jordan for shots. Hell Magic dominates games without taking a shot, that's the beauty of playing him with Jordan. One passes, the other scores.....very simple.

Last edited by Roman77; 03-20-2012 at 03:24 AM..
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Old 03-20-2012, 03:16 AM
 
Location: San Diego
2,888 posts, read 6,461,453 times
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I didn't read this thread because this topic is insulting. If Kobe stopped playing today, he'd be a first ballot HOF and without question the best player since Jordan. I'm a Laker hater but you can't hate on Kobe. If he played on any other team, I'd probably own his jersey and I don't wear jerseys.
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Old 03-20-2012, 03:29 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,892,392 times
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Originally Posted by Dub D View Post
I didn't read this thread because this topic is insulting. If Kobe stopped playing today, he'd be a first ballot HOF and without question the best player since Jordan. I'm a Laker hater but you can't hate on Kobe. If he played on any other team, I'd probably own his jersey and I don't wear jerseys.
No-one's arguing his HOF credentials. It's arguable whether he's the best player since Jordan because at their peaks, Tim Duncan and Shaq had more impact. That is to say, if you put each player with a cast of average players, Kobe's team is likely to be the worst. You could say Kobe's longevity puts him over those guys, but at at his peak he was never more dominant than either Shaq or Duncan at their peaks.
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:00 AM
 
52,206 posts, read 42,000,709 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dub D View Post
I didn't read this thread because this topic is insulting. If Kobe stopped playing today, he'd be a first ballot HOF and without question the best player since Jordan. I'm a Laker hater but you can't hate on Kobe. If he played on any other team, I'd probably own his jersey and I don't wear jerseys.
I'm the OP and I would ask you to reconsider that the topic is actually complimentary of Kobe and not an insult.

The very concept of having a legacy means he is up in the lofty ranks of NBA players.

Lots of good discussions in this thread especially around where he might end up on the all-time scoring lists.
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