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Old 11-18-2014, 12:39 AM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
12,201 posts, read 10,431,779 times
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Mathguy, while you're very knowledgable on the sport (more than me anyway), I think you're ignoring the fact that this is his team...not management's. Yes, they've made some stupid moves (i.e. Nash), but the fact that he has zero support is his own doing. While he does have an incredible work ethic, he is a virtually uncoachable player who has driven away almost anyone who could've helped them contend right now. Phil Jackson, to his credit, is the only one who has been able to corral that ego long enough to make him a champion.
It's easy to say he has no support, and blame it on the team for not providing it, but how much has he done to make talented players welcome with the Lakers since he's been there?
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Old 11-18-2014, 07:33 AM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,204,830 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
Mathguy, while you're very knowledgable on the sport (more than me anyway), I think you're ignoring the fact that this is his team...not management's. Yes, they've made some stupid moves (i.e. Nash), but the fact that he has zero support is his own doing. While he does have an incredible work ethic, he is a virtually uncoachable player who has driven away almost anyone who could've helped them contend right now. Phil Jackson, to his credit, is the only one who has been able to corral that ego long enough to make him a champion.
It's easy to say he has no support, and blame it on the team for not providing it, but how much has he done to make talented players welcome with the Lakers since he's been there?
For all the "I told you so's" my boy math has laid out there, I don't think he has missed that point at all. He and I have been vocal in how bad a team player Kobe is, and how it is his ego and "greed" that has cost "literally" the lakers seasons. His vocalization that he wasn't taking a large salary hit being the straw that broke buss's back.
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Old 11-18-2014, 09:47 AM
 
52,032 posts, read 41,862,229 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
Mathguy, while you're very knowledgable on the sport (more than me anyway), I think you're ignoring the fact that this is his team...not management's. Yes, they've made some stupid moves (i.e. Nash), but the fact that he has zero support is his own doing. While he does have an incredible work ethic, he is a virtually uncoachable player who has driven away almost anyone who could've helped them contend right now. Phil Jackson, to his credit, is the only one who has been able to corral that ego long enough to make him a champion.
It's easy to say he has no support, and blame it on the team for not providing it, but how much has he done to make talented players welcome with the Lakers since he's been there?
I've made all those points over the years. I've been called Laker Hater here for a loooooong time for my blunt assessment of Kobe and the Lakers at times.

The bottom line to me is that for whatever reason he's the only thing worth watching on that team and they aren't going to do anything anyway so I give him a free pass even if he's only shooting around 40%.

Just scan back over this thread to see all the love I've gotten for talking about Kobe over the years.
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Old 11-18-2014, 10:48 AM
 
1,287 posts, read 958,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
If you just look at that game, sure.

But if you look at the other games.....he's taken a ton of shots to put up points.

Let's be fair to his teamates too.

1) Kobe is still skilled.
2) His teamates? No. But they'd do better if he shared the ball.
3) Does sharing the ball really change anything? No.

so that takes us to

4) The Lakers suck, they are paying Kobe $30mil a year to keep butts in seats while they START to rebuild.

I've criticized Kobe before for shooting too much (but only during select years) and whatnot but with this team? Swing away Kobe, Swing Away....he is one of the all-time greats and I hope he tears up some arse this year.

P.S. It's hard to play D when Boozer and Lin are arguably the worst starters in their league defensively....and arguably offensively lol. That's not even picking on the other guys.
I totally agree, I just only watch when they play GSW, so it's just a SSS, but it's crazy how crappy the Lakers are right now. GSW didn't even play the 1st team in the whole 4th quarter, they are without David Lee, and they totally dominated them. I'm not really used to watching such a spanking, especially traveling to LA.
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Old 11-18-2014, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,794 posts, read 14,287,906 times
Reputation: 7950
I really think Laker fans might be in for a long drought ahead. First of all the LA area generally faces a lot of challenges due to the politics of the past couple decades. CA is no longer the golden state that it once was. Secondly, the Lakers now have to compete with a Clippers team owned by Steve Ballmer, who reminds me of Mark Cuban when he first bought the Mavs.
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Old 11-18-2014, 11:14 AM
 
Location: California
1,191 posts, read 1,287,548 times
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Kobe has never been the best team mate. That's common knowledge. He took way too much money on that contract extension. He gets trigger happy way too often. I'm a diehard Laker fan and I have harped on these things before. With that said:

The leadership in the team's front office has basically collapsed over the last several years. That's the real reason the team is where it is now. It was the front office that decided to put all their effort into wooing Carmelo over the summer. They could have had Stephenson. Admittedly he's struggling. But he's better than what they have. But the team didn't even make an offer to Stephenson. They didn't even make any qualifying offers to Eric Bledsoe or Greg Monroe. They contacted Isaiah Thomas and told him to wait until they finished pursuing Carmelo. Of course the Suns swooped in while the Lakers were entertaining what everyone else saw as a long shot.

And don't get me started on the coaching debacle. D'Antoni walked in late May. The Lakers hired his replacement (Scott) in late July. They sat by for two months with no coach while quite a few quality coaches were on the market. Then they went into free agency with no coach and basically no roster. And they actually thought a quality free agent would go along with that. That screams incompetence.

They let Howard go for nothing. They let Gasol go for nothing. They let Chris Kaman go for nothing. In a league where 7 footers are like gold they let three of them walk in a two year span for nothing in return. That is why they have no talent now. There is so much more I could bring up, but I'm not trying to write a book here.

Kobe is a bitter pill for any team mate to swallow. But the vast majority of NBA players will take a check anywhere they can get it. You could say the Lakers aren't title contenders because of Kobe's need to dominate. It runs off stars. But the team is flat out terrible because of management. Even with Kobe's flaws the team doesn't have to be THIS bad. That's all on management.
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Old 11-18-2014, 11:52 AM
 
52,032 posts, read 41,862,229 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliDude1 View Post
Kobe has never been the best team mate. That's common knowledge. He took way too much money on that contract extension. He gets trigger happy way too often. I'm a diehard Laker fan and I have harped on these things before. With that said:

The leadership in the team's front office has basically collapsed over the last several years. That's the real reason the team is where it is now. It was the front office that decided to put all their effort into wooing Carmelo over the summer. They could have had Stephenson. Admittedly he's struggling. But he's better than what they have. But the team didn't even make an offer to Stephenson. They didn't even make any qualifying offers to Eric Bledsoe or Greg Monroe. They contacted Isaiah Thomas and told him to wait until they finished pursuing Carmelo. Of course the Suns swooped in while the Lakers were entertaining what everyone else saw as a long shot.

And don't get me started on the coaching debacle. D'Antoni walked in late May. The Lakers hired his replacement (Scott) in late July. They sat by for two months with no coach while quite a few quality coaches were on the market. Then they went into free agency with no coach and basically no roster. And they actually thought a quality free agent would go along with that. That screams incompetence.

They let Howard go for nothing. They let Gasol go for nothing. They let Chris Kaman go for nothing. In a league where 7 footers are like gold they let three of them walk in a two year span for nothing in return. That is why they have no talent now. There is so much more I could bring up, but I'm not trying to write a book here.

Kobe is a bitter pill for any team mate to swallow. But the vast majority of NBA players will take a check anywhere they can get it. You could say the Lakers aren't title contenders because of Kobe's need to dominate. It runs off stars. But the team is flat out terrible because of management. Even with Kobe's flaws the team doesn't have to be THIS bad. That's all on management.
It's possible that they are intentionally tanking but even if that is the case it doesn't excuse not getting draft picks for guys that walked and giving up wayyyyy too much for Nash.

I got cussed out before for saying it but I think the over/under on a return to the playoffs is around 5-6 years.
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Old 11-18-2014, 12:20 PM
 
Location: California
1,191 posts, read 1,287,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
It's possible that they are intentionally tanking but even if that is the case it doesn't excuse not getting draft picks for guys that walked and giving up wayyyyy too much for Nash.

I got cussed out before for saying it but I think the over/under on a return to the playoffs is around 5-6 years.
I actually do think they are tanking. But they can't come out and say it because of their Time Warner deal among other things. As to how long before they are back in the playoffs? I can't say. The West is tough. But the NBA landscape can change pretty quickly. It's clear they are not going this season. And doubt they are making it in next season. Going back to last season that would be 3 years out of the playoffs. That's halfway there.
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Old 11-18-2014, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,794 posts, read 14,287,906 times
Reputation: 7950
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliDude1 View Post
I actually do think they are tanking. But they can't come out and say it because of their Time Warner deal among other things. As to how long before they are back in the playoffs? I can't say. The West is tough. But the NBA landscape can change pretty quickly. It's clear they are not going this season. And doubt they are making it in next season. Going back to last season that would be 3 years out of the playoffs. That's halfway there.
tanking is a good strategy for them at this point, but the question is how do they rebuild after tanking. I think the Lakers could easily end up like the NY Knicks--a once-proud franchise that turned into a laughingstock. Only time will tell, but all signs point to the Lakers following in the footsteps of the Knicks.
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Old 11-18-2014, 02:45 PM
 
52,032 posts, read 41,862,229 times
Reputation: 32463
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliDude1 View Post
I actually do think they are tanking. But they can't come out and say it because of their Time Warner deal among other things. As to how long before they are back in the playoffs? I can't say. The West is tough. But the NBA landscape can change pretty quickly. It's clear they are not going this season. And doubt they are making it in next season. Going back to last season that would be 3 years out of the playoffs. That's halfway there.
Well, on the plus side....they have money.

On the negative side, there is a salary cap (of sorts) so they can't go all Yankees and buy their way out of trouble.

On a questionable side, they could get some draft picks but they only get 2 of their next 4 draft picks and even then it takes guys a couple years to contribute.

Also, you cannot trade draftpicks from consecutive years so the Lakers would have a hard time wrangling someone that requires any sort of trade to acquire rights.

After this season, I'm thinking 4-5 more out of the playoffs.
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