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View Poll Results: NBA draft - rigged?
Yes! 11 57.89%
No! 5 26.32%
This poll is also rigged 3 15.79%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-31-2012, 02:27 PM
 
Location: The "Rock"
2,551 posts, read 2,419,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
If it's rigged then why has the league forsaken the Knicks? The biggest freaking market had a horrible stretch and could have easily been reloaded in the post-ewing era with rigged results. It wasn't.

Heck, some of you were even claiming Lebron would leave Clevland for the Knicks due to Sterns interference...didn't happen either.

If people think a team winning a 14% is a conspiracy, but turn around and accept teams winning games with 2/3 court shots, hail marys and so forth then the problem lies with them.
I hear ya... And I'm probably being a little strong in the accusation but

The league doesnt NEED the Knicks to be great. Even though they did get Ewing conveniently. But the Knicks are a valuable franchise as is...

I don't think they rig it in they say who will get each pick, but I jus think they make sure odds are better for their scenarios.... and some years they probably dont rig it at all. But it sure seems to work out for whatever is best the league in general.

It's kinda of running joke that the NBA rigs it... i realize they probably do not. but outside of tanking games... what is the justification of the lottery? seriously...
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Old 05-31-2012, 02:36 PM
 
52,114 posts, read 41,937,212 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. GE View Post
I hear ya... And I'm probably being a little strong in the accusation but

The league doesnt NEED the Knicks to be great. Even though they did get Ewing conveniently. But the Knicks are a valuable franchise as is...

I don't think they rig it in they say who will get each pick, but I jus think they make sure odds are better for their scenarios.... and some years they probably dont rig it at all. But it sure seems to work out for whatever is best the league in general.

It's kinda of running joke that the NBA rigs it... i realize they probably do not. but outside of tanking games... what is the justification of the lottery? seriously...
Good discussion. Personally I think the lottery is justified in only two ways:
1) prevents tanking
2) adds some spice to the value of trades and if your team will get player X.

However, the risk of wierd events creates the potential to question the games integrity.

Imagine if Kobe had gotten hurt and missed 2-3 weeks and the Lakers finished 9th in the west. What happens if they'd won the #1 pick this year with a <1% chance? Ditto for the Knicks.

I don't know, those types of things will and do happen but I don't know if it actually turns fans off the sport or just fires them up with soemthing to moan and speculate about.
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Old 05-31-2012, 06:53 PM
 
Location: The "Rock"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Good discussion. Personally I think the lottery is justified in only two ways:
1) prevents tanking
2) adds some spice to the value of trades and if your team will get player X.

However, the risk of wierd events creates the potential to question the games integrity.

Imagine if Kobe had gotten hurt and missed 2-3 weeks and the Lakers finished 9th in the west. What happens if they'd won the #1 pick this year with a <1% chance? Ditto for the Knicks.

I don't know, those types of things will and do happen but I don't know if it actually turns fans off the sport or just fires them up with soemthing to moan and speculate about.
I'm a little lost on the reason #2... Give me an example.

As far as the Lakers scenario... It's a good point but it's gimmicky. And I don't like teams which are business having their fate relying on luck. I rather it be their decisions.

I guess that's why I don't like it. I never have... it's not the end of the world, but it's definitely a turn off to me. I think the NFL model is just better.
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Old 05-31-2012, 09:23 PM
 
52,114 posts, read 41,937,212 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. GE View Post
I'm a little lost on the reason #2... Give me an example.

As far as the Lakers scenario... It's a good point but it's gimmicky. And I don't like teams which are business having their fate relying on luck. I rather it be their decisions.

I guess that's why I don't like it. I never have... it's not the end of the world, but it's definitely a turn off to me. I think the NFL model is just better.
I like the NFL model, but the incentive is greater to tank in the NBA.
A lebron or Shaq can put any scrub team into the playoffs....which is not true for the NFL.

As an example per your request, imagine if a young Shaq were up in the draft this year, it would be incredibly exciting to see which team gets him instead of automatically knowing he would go to the team with the worst record. Add in the drama of unprotected draft picks in some trades.
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Old 05-31-2012, 09:56 PM
 
Location: The "Rock"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
I like the NFL model, but the incentive is greater to tank in the NBA.
A lebron or Shaq can put any scrub team into the playoffs....which is not true for the NFL.
That's really a meaningless point because those playoff teams are not contenders... i mean you dont exactly have to be a good team to make the NBA playoffs. Jordan made the Bulls a playoff team his rookie year with a 38-44 record.

The NFL jus doesn't have watered down rounds of their playoffs. Payton Manning was huge payoff for the Colts. They were a perennial cellar dweller until they drafted him. But in the NFL, 95% of the time you don't make the playoffs unless you are a contender. Hence why several Wild Card teams have won Super Bowls. That's equivalent to. 7 or 8 seed in the NBA. would never happen in the NBA.

So the incentive is not tangibly greater in the NBA to tank. I think they have just sold this lottery theory to the fans and they are buying it. NFL model is better
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Old 06-01-2012, 05:06 AM
 
4,399 posts, read 9,082,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
If it's rigged then why has the league forsaken the Knicks? The biggest freaking market had a horrible stretch and could have easily been reloaded in the post-ewing era with rigged results. It wasn't.

Heck, some of you were even claiming Lebron would leave Clevland for the Knicks due to Sterns interference...didn't happen either.

If people think a team winning a 14% is a conspiracy, but turn around and accept teams winning games with 2/3 court shots, hail marys and so forth then the problem lies with them.
It's not like Knicks could even be helped by a rigged draft since they always trade their picks away. And I don't think they have had that many lottery picks in the past 7 or 8 years.
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Old 06-01-2012, 03:47 PM
 
4,399 posts, read 9,082,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. GE View Post
That's really a meaningless point because those playoff teams are not contenders... i mean you dont exactly have to be a good team to make the NBA playoffs. Jordan made the Bulls a playoff team his rookie year with a 38-44 record.

The NFL jus doesn't have watered down rounds of their playoffs. Payton Manning was huge payoff for the Colts. They were a perennial cellar dweller until they drafted him. But in the NFL, 95% of the time you don't make the playoffs unless you are a contender. Hence why several Wild Card teams have won Super Bowls. That's equivalent to. 7 or 8 seed in the NBA. would never happen in the NBA.

So the incentive is not tangibly greater in the NBA to tank. I think they have just sold this lottery theory to the fans and they are buying it. NFL model is better
The fact that the NBA playoffs has more ordinary teams has nothing to do with teams having a great motivation to tank. One basketball player has a greater impact on the game than 1 football player.
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Old 06-01-2012, 03:59 PM
 
Location: The "Rock"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2008 View Post
One basketball player has a greater impact on the game than 1 football player.


We just saw how not having ONE player took a team and a Super Bowl contender from the playoffs to being the worst in the league...
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Old 06-01-2012, 05:44 PM
 
4,399 posts, read 9,082,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. GE View Post


We just saw how not having ONE player took a team and a Super Bowl contender from the playoffs to being the worst in the league...
How did the panthers do last year with Cam Newton?
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Old 06-01-2012, 08:01 PM
 
Location: The "Rock"
2,551 posts, read 2,419,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2008 View Post
How did the panthers do last year with Cam Newton?
Exponentially better than the year before... And in case you don't know what that means. They won 3 times as many games. Scored more than twice as many points. Had over 2K more yards! But yea one player doesn't matter...

Just quit while ur ahead. You have already lost this one. Let it go.

In the famous words of Kenny Rogers... know when to fold them!


Now get back go to discussing B-Ball...
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