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Old 06-19-2012, 12:55 PM
 
Location: The "Rock"
2,551 posts, read 2,412,837 times
Reputation: 1322

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Good discussion.

Yeah, a lot of stuff is debatable....except that 72 win team. Anybody thinking that this years Heat squad wouldn't get their butts spanked by them has had a few too many puffs on the crack pipe.

yea... Not sure if you saw the discussion during the conference semi's but some folks were comparing this years Spurs to that Bulls team. saying they were in that discussion...

That team has no equal. No one is in their discussion.
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,878,428 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. GE View Post
Gotcha... that one year is certainly the case.

My only rebuttal (and I am only saying this to keep the discussion going, so its picky) would be that Wade was not winning... so Kobe's down stats were sacraficed because he was winning. In the years when Kobe was not winning he put up a higher average than Wade did in 2009 ('05 and '06). And even in 2009 Kobe still avg 27 (only 3 pts lower than Wade) and won a title. That would still put him above Wade even in that one year...

The best I can give him is Lebron-1, Kobe-2a, Wade-2b...
Well he didn't have the team around him, so I'm not sure I would hold it against him. If you compare Kobe's 2006 season and Wade's 2009 season, Kobe's only advantage was scoring 35 points on 45% shooting. I think a few players could manage those kinds of numbers if given a green-light of 27 shots a night. Wade's other numbers were across the board better in assists, marginal difference in rebounds, better shooting percentage, better blocks, better steals. 2009 Wade across the board was a beast, only one-upped by Lebron's own monster year. In fact, I don't think Kobe's best season was 2006 when he scored 35.4; I believe as an all-around effort, he was better in 2003 when he averaged 30 points, 7 rebounds, 6 assists, and better defensively( this was the season when he hit 9 straight games of 40 points).
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:57 PM
 
Location: The "Rock"
2,551 posts, read 2,412,837 times
Reputation: 1322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
Well he didn't have the team around him, so I'm not sure I would hold it against him. If you compare Kobe's 2006 season and Wade's 2009 season, Kobe's only advantage was scoring 35 points on 45% shooting. I think a few players could manage those kinds of numbers if given a green-light of 27 shots a night. Wade's other numbers were across the board better in assists, marginal difference in rebounds, better shooting percentage, better blocks, better steals. 2009 Wade across the board was a beast, only one-upped by Lebron's own monster year. In fact, I don't think Kobe's best season was 2006 when he scored 35.4; I thought as an all-around effort, he was better in 2003 when he averaged 30 points, 7 rebounds, 6 assists, and better defensively( this was the season when he hit 9 straight games of 40 points).

lol... yea, i never said Kobe wasn't a ball hog!
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Old 06-19-2012, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,884 posts, read 5,178,709 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
He'd have had a tougher time than Jordan I feel, as far as cracking that Knicks defense. In addition to the players you mention, you had Starks' pesky perimeter defense, guys like Gerald Wilkins and Xavier Mcdaniel. They'd have thrown a number of different players at Lebron, who certainly has the physicality to handle those Knicks, but doesn't have Jordan's offensive versatility. In order to attack that Knicks defense, you'd need a consistent jumpshot, something that prime Jordan had and Lebron doesn't.
Those Knick teams were brutal. They'd be the equivalent of 1 1/2 teams today. I'd like to see Lebron drive the lane with all those knicks in the paint.

-With the bulls of the 90's, I think what made them great, every player knew their role. I.e. like a BJ Armstrong. He wasn't trying to be on sportscenter every night. He was another guy that had a deadly outside game, 40-45% 3 point shooter.

Kukoc could have tried to be someone else. He had the talent. Those players had good judgement and maturity.

-It's funny how players were much more mature in the late 80's and 90's. This is why Lebron has gotten so much criticism. He's playing in a generation of kids.

-Playing against tough defenses made you more creative and smarter. How much of Jordans game was improvised because he was playing against tough teams? He had to be versatile offensively.
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Old 06-19-2012, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Lewes, Delaware
3,466 posts, read 3,147,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. GE View Post
Let me preference this by saying I am not debating your assessment... as its just an opinion and times are different.

But there was a time during the Bulls' runs when Pippen was regarded as the 2nd best player in the NBA besides Jordan. I don't know if anyone has ever thought Wade was the 2nd best player in the NBA. Top 5 for sure... but not top 2.

But you saying Pippen wasnt that great only echoes the OP's point... Which I do not agree with.
Pippen was a very good player, super defender, I just think Wade is better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
1. Kobes game really doesn't resemble Jordans other than they played shooting guard. His game is somewhere between Jordan and Reggie Miller offensively, Jordan did his damage in close and at the rim while Kobe is more of a shooter. Defensively however you have a very good comparison.

You're right on that one

2. While Jordan was an intense jerk hidden behind a million dollar smile (like Isaih and others), I would note that um....he won rings and finals MVP's taking as few as 22 shots per game in the playoffs. You might note how much higher is FG% is than Kobe's. Jordan calmed down in his later years and won rings. Kobe has kinda gone off the rails after Shaq left, got it together for a few years and has since regressed back to shooting wayyyy too much.

Jordan won some rings? who knew, lol, nothing without Pippen though and I'd take Pippen over Gasol anyday.
It's not like when Kobe won his two rings without Shaq that Bynum was considered the 2nd best center in the game.
3. Dwade is a better scorer than Pippen and that is the only place he beats Pippen. You will notice that Dwade doesn't bring the ball up the court much and certainly not under pressure. Pippen actually compares to Lebron with less scoring. I think the year Jordan was retired Pip led the bulls in every major stat category.

Consider his prime around 93-4,
Scottie Pippen NBA & ABA Statistics | Basketball-Reference.com

He was essentially playing point-forward and averaged more steals and blocks a game than turnovers.
Dwade won a ring with an old Shaq, to me that's more impressive than anything Pippen did, besides Pippen ended his career like a douche.

I'm not arguing, Pippen was a beast and was a good complement to Jordan, I can see Lebron playing with Jordan, Kobe hell no.
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:56 AM
 
51,897 posts, read 41,774,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James420 View Post
Dwade won a ring with an old Shaq, to me that's more impressive than anything Pippen did,
Sorry but that's incorrect. While he wasn't the dominant Shaq of his prime he was still a force.

Shaq was 1st team all-nba that year and only 33 years old. He was definitely in shape that year and playing tough...his game fell off the rest of the way AFTER that.

The key to the finals that year was the fact that Wade shot a *crap ton* of free throws. The mavs interior was constantly fouling Shaq putting them in the penalty....which meant wade couldn't be guarded as tightly. He shot something like 25 FT's in one game alone.

Let's wait until Wade's career is over. Certainly it's a hard comparison between him and Pippen as they were VERY different players. Wade's game is more like Jordan and Pippen is quite frankly more like a PG.
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Old 06-20-2012, 09:58 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,729 posts, read 6,137,255 times
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Lol @ Kobe & Lebron being compared to the G.O.A.T. Michael Jordan.
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Old 06-21-2012, 01:08 AM
 
457 posts, read 536,181 times
Reputation: 344
How do you know for sure? NBA was way different when Jordan played. You had a lot of great bballers, guys that played tough defense, and a more tough nba.
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:18 AM
 
1,807 posts, read 2,889,227 times
Reputation: 1228
Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
Lol @ Kobe & Lebron being compared to the G.O.A.T. Michael Jordan.
haha exactly. please stop these shenanigans. lebron is 0-2 in the finals and kobe sidekicked his way to 3 straight riding the diesel's coattails. give me a break
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:46 PM
 
1,561 posts, read 1,659,477 times
Reputation: 1046
Apples and oranges.

LeBron, Kobe and MJ are three different players and came up in different eras, especially Jordan and LeBron so you can't really compare.

That being said, the single biggest difference I can see is that Jordan, Kobe and other greats have that killer instict that LeBron has not yet shown consistantly. Jordan (and Bird, Kobe, Thomas, etc....) would cut your heart out and leave it on the floor if that is what it took to win the title. Now that may be starting to change as he is having a great finals performance. Take this FWIW as I'm an Akron native and Cavs fan.
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