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Old 06-17-2012, 12:02 PM
 
20 posts, read 12,563 times
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easily. Both of them had world class coaching as well. Lebron has never had good coaches either. This man is handling a far larger load then MJ or Kobe had to! He's gotten them to the Finals with no true big man center, weak perimeter shooting, and sub par coaching! Give the man his respect. I will feel really bad for Lebron if they dont win this year, he deserves it, he wants it so bad!
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Old 06-18-2012, 09:45 AM
 
52,281 posts, read 42,056,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raybarboni View Post
easily. Both of them had world class coaching as well. Lebron has never had good coaches either. This man is handling a far larger load then MJ or Kobe had to! He's gotten them to the Finals with no true big man center, weak perimeter shooting, and sub par coaching! Give the man his respect. I will feel really bad for Lebron if they dont win this year, he deserves it, he wants it so bad!
Why don't you list up the rosters and do a comparison?
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Lewes, Delaware
3,476 posts, read 3,166,513 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raybarboni View Post
easily. Both of them had world class coaching as well. Lebron has never had good coaches either. This man is handling a far larger load then MJ or Kobe had to! He's gotten them to the Finals with no true big man center, weak perimeter shooting, and sub par coaching! Give the man his respect. I will feel really bad for Lebron if they dont win this year, he deserves it, he wants it so bad!
Different players different times, Kobes's game more resembles Jordan's, Lebrons resembles Magics game and I rate Magic in the top 5 ever because he could play any position. Lebron playing down low with Gasol and Bynum might work but Kobe has never been scared to take the last shot, he always wants the ball. Jordan was a gunner as well if he didn't get his 25 or 30 shots a game his teammates heard about it. The funny thing about Jordan is that he would be viewed like Kobe is now, kind of a jerk, but back in '80 s we didn't have Internet, or early '90s. Jordan had Pippen who I hate to tell you is not as good as D Wade IMHO, but again it's different times. Lebron never had to play against, Ewing, Mourning, Olajuwon, Prime Shaq, Rodman, the Bad Boys, Charles Oakley. Different rosters for different times.

Lebron couldn't be Kobe or Jordan he's not a jerk, he doesnt need to feed his ego by taking over games,jso what worked for Jordan and Kobe may not work for Lebron.
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Old 06-18-2012, 02:03 PM
 
Location: The "Rock"
2,551 posts, read 2,423,233 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James420 View Post
Different players different times, Kobes's game more resembles Jordan's, Lebrons resembles Magics game and I rate Magic in the top 5 ever because he could play any position. Lebron playing down low with Gasol and Bynum might work but Kobe has never been scared to take the last shot, he always wants the ball. Jordan was a gunner as well if he didn't get his 25 or 30 shots a game his teammates heard about it. The funny thing about Jordan is that he would be viewed like Kobe is now, kind of a jerk, but back in '80 s we didn't have Internet, or early '90s. Jordan had Pippen who I hate to tell you is not as good as D Wade IMHO, but again it's different times. Lebron never had to play against, Ewing, Mourning, Olajuwon, Prime Shaq, Rodman, the Bad Boys, Charles Oakley. Different rosters for different times.

Lebron couldn't be Kobe or Jordan he's not a jerk, he doesnt need to feed his ego by taking over games,jso what worked for Jordan and Kobe may not work for Lebron.
Let me preference this by saying I am not debating your assessment... as its just an opinion and times are different.

But there was a time during the Bulls' runs when Pippen was regarded as the 2nd best player in the NBA besides Jordan. I don't know if anyone has ever thought Wade was the 2nd best player in the NBA. Top 5 for sure... but not top 2.

But you saying Pippen wasnt that great only echoes the OP's point... Which I do not agree with.
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Old 06-18-2012, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,895,916 times
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Originally Posted by Mr. GE View Post
I don't know if anyone has ever thought Wade was the 2nd best player in the NBA. Top 5 for sure... but not top 2.
At one point( 2-3 seasons ago) you could have made the argument that he was top 2, at worst top 3. Many people felt he should have won MVP in 2009, and not one of those 'best player on the best team' type MVP seasons.
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Old 06-19-2012, 04:08 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,884 posts, read 5,195,290 times
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Jordan had some awesome help. Remember Craig Hodges, Steve Kerr, John Paxson?

Those guys were like Shane Battier hitting 3's in the Finals, only they did it all year. Steve Kerr averaged 50% from 3's a few seasons with the Bulls. Averaged.

-I think another issue with the Jordan bulls, those guys were healthy. I don't remember anyone with big health issues that derailed the team. Kukoc, Harper, Kerr, they all played 75-82 games. Or if one of them only played 50 or 55 games in a season, the others would make up for it, playing 75+. And they logged a lot of minutes in the playoffs.

Lebron would be tested if he played in the 90's. How would he handle the 90's knicks....ewing, oakley, mason, smith? And Olajuwon, Mourning, Mutombo?, Piston Bad Boys, or Parish, McHale?

The best team for Lebron might be the showtime lakers? Imagine that? He'd be like a kid in a candy store in the open court and on transition. That would have been fun to watch.
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Old 06-19-2012, 06:27 AM
 
52,281 posts, read 42,056,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James420 View Post
Different players different times, Kobes's game more resembles Jordan's, Lebrons resembles Magics game and I rate Magic in the top 5 ever because he could play any position. Lebron playing down low with Gasol and Bynum might work but Kobe has never been scared to take the last shot, he always wants the ball. Jordan was a gunner as well if he didn't get his 25 or 30 shots a game his teammates heard about it. The funny thing about Jordan is that he would be viewed like Kobe is now, kind of a jerk, but back in '80 s we didn't have Internet, or early '90s. Jordan had Pippen who I hate to tell you is not as good as D Wade IMHO, but again it's different times. Lebron never had to play against, Ewing, Mourning, Olajuwon, Prime Shaq, Rodman, the Bad Boys, Charles Oakley. Different rosters for different times.

Lebron couldn't be Kobe or Jordan he's not a jerk, he doesnt need to feed his ego by taking over games,jso what worked for Jordan and Kobe may not work for Lebron.
1. Kobes game really doesn't resemble Jordans other than they played shooting guard. His game is somewhere between Jordan and Reggie Miller offensively, Jordan did his damage in close and at the rim while Kobe is more of a shooter. Defensively however you have a very good comparison.

2. While Jordan was an intense jerk hidden behind a million dollar smile (like Isaih and others), I would note that um....he won rings and finals MVP's taking as few as 22 shots per game in the playoffs. You might note how much higher is FG% is than Kobe's. Jordan calmed down in his later years and won rings. Kobe has kinda gone off the rails after Shaq left, got it together for a few years and has since regressed back to shooting wayyyy too much.

3. Dwade is a better scorer than Pippen and that is the only place he beats Pippen. You will notice that Dwade doesn't bring the ball up the court much and certainly not under pressure. Pippen actually compares to Lebron with less scoring. I think the year Jordan was retired Pip led the bulls in every major stat category.

Consider his prime around 93-4,
Scottie Pippen NBA & ABA Statistics | Basketball-Reference.com

He was essentially playing point-forward and averaged more steals and blocks a game than turnovers.
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Old 06-19-2012, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,895,916 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John23 View Post
J


Lebron would be tested if he played in the 90's. How would he handle the 90's knicks....ewing, oakley, mason, smith?
He'd have had a tougher time than Jordan I feel, as far as cracking that Knicks defense. In addition to the players you mention, you had Starks' pesky perimeter defense, guys like Gerald Wilkins and Xavier Mcdaniel. They'd have thrown a number of different players at Lebron, who certainly has the physicality to handle those Knicks, but doesn't have Jordan's offensive versatility. In order to attack that Knicks defense, you'd need a consistent jumpshot, something that prime Jordan had and Lebron doesn't.
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Old 06-19-2012, 06:33 AM
 
52,281 posts, read 42,056,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. GE View Post
Let me preference this by saying I am not debating your assessment... as its just an opinion and times are different.

But there was a time during the Bulls' runs when Pippen was regarded as the 2nd best player in the NBA besides Jordan. I don't know if anyone has ever thought Wade was the 2nd best player in the NBA. Top 5 for sure... but not top 2.

But you saying Pippen wasnt that great only echoes the OP's point... Which I do not agree with.
Pippen was highly regarded, maybe not top 2 since you have guys like Olajuwon, Malone, Robinson, Barkley etc. roaming about....but certainly top 5-10 is easily defensible.

The Bulls had some great squads but I want to see someone trying to support the OP's point actually make a roster comparison. The 72-win season....yeah....clearly more talent but the first championship I think it's probably about even with Miami.
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Old 06-19-2012, 06:37 AM
 
52,281 posts, read 42,056,607 times
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Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
He'd have had a tougher time than Jordan I feel, as far as cracking that Knicks defense. In addition to the players you mention, you had Starks' pesky perimeter defense, guys like Gerald Wilkins and Xavier Mcdaniel. They'd have thrown a number of different players at Lebron, who certainly has the physicality to handle those Knicks, but doesn't have Jordan's offensive versatility. In order to attack that Knicks defense, you'd need a consistent jumpshot, something that prime Jordan had and Lebron doesn't.
Don't forget Anthony Mason. With the hand-check in play back then he'd give Lebron trouble and had the size and strength in addition.

I'm sure Lebron would have adjusted though.

It's only the speedy guard types that would have struggled more (depending) in the era of the low score, hand check, post-game style bigman play.
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