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Of course Kobe comes out and says they could be the Dream team, Barkley comments back that the dream team guys were in their primes while some of the current olympic squads are not.
This is one thing I've always liked about Kobe. He's always understood that nobody is so sacred, holy and infallible that they're beyond challenge. Nadal has the same attitude. "So what Roger Federer is great...I'm still going to kick his a--." I respect the Benny Blanco in him. You need that Benny Blanco/Marlo Stanfield mentality to be great.
Prop Joe: Don't you know a lot of young guys have worn the crown in Baltimore? What makes you think you won't end up like them?
Marlo: That's it. They WORE the crown. It's my time now.
The PG position was played differently at that era so it's hard to say since Stockton didn't usually see that type of player as they normally played at the 2-spot.
However, there were still some incredibly explosive guys in that era and I cannot just surrender a 5-time all-nba defender to be somehow abused by rose or westbrook. They are both bigtime scorers so nobody is going to contain them solo, I just think stockton would do a pretty decent job.
Your first point is expressly why Stockton would have issues. Guys like Rose and Westbrook were not around at the PG spot in Stockton's day. The 'athletic' PGs back then would be someone like Kevin Johnson or Tim Hardaway, Isiah Thomas. Great athletes but a cut below someone like Westbrook on the athletic chain. And yes, I realize that there's more to great defense than having superior athleticism. Bruce Bowen and Shane Battier were/are great perimeter defenders, neither of them are 'great' athletes. But they have superior anticipation, footwork, and desire to defend. The latter point is half the battle.
Where Stockton is concerned, defensive awards aside he was not a lockdown defender. As I described above, he played the passing lanes well, and was tough and gritty( some would say a little 'dirty' too. He was known for grabbing jerseys and giving you a little shot in the ribs back in the days of handchecking). In this era where looking at a player too hard results in a foul, Stockton would have a hard time with someone like Westbrook. And that relates to any great offensive perimeter threat today. Scottie Pippen himself said he'd likely foul out with the way the game is called nowadays.
I think this current crop of players is superior at the Guard/Swing Forward position. The Kobe/MJ matchup is a wash. Even at 34, I don't see anybody locking Kobe down. Durant, Anthony, LBJ and Westbrook is a lot of fire power. Chris Paul and Deron Williams could outplay John Stockton. Magic was past his prime in 1992. I think a very strong and physical Deron Williams would give him fits. Same thing goes for Larry Bird. He was well past his prime during the Barcelona games.
I'd take Lebron James in a matchup against Barkley, Jordan or Pippen. None of those guys are big or strong enough to guard him.
Malone, Robinson and Ewing are CLEARLY superior (skill wise) to this team's Bigs. But Love has got range and Howard has got, well...Howard has got....Howard has got....muscles? He can dunk really good.
Hmmm gotta disagree on a few points here. Kobe at 34 is not a 'wash' with 29 year old prime MJ. Yes he's still a great scorer and he'd get his points, but Jordan was at his peak here and there's simply no way he doesn't give Kobe everything he can handle and more. Remember you also had Drexler backing Jordan up; who's the other SG? Harden? Advantage Dream team.
Bird was definitely on his last legs, however Magic was still playing good ball here. No, certainly not 1987 level, but if he was still in the league at that time he would certainly be an all-star level player.
Lebron has the advantage at SF, however don't sleep on a young Pippen at 6'8 225. This guy was a superior all-court defender to the likes of Bowen and Battier, who have played Lebron tough in the past. Lebron would also have to play defense as well. Barkley was a beast down low, and assuming that's who he'd be matched up with, that would be an interesting battle. Barkley was tough and physical, one of the league's strongest players even at 6'6, 260. That's no pushover matchup either way. And bear in mind, Dream team can clog up the lane with Ewing and Robinson, while having Pippen guard Lebron on the perimeter, which could turn him into a jumpshooter. If there's any noticeable advantage for today's team, it's Durant and Melo matching up against Mullin. Mullin was a fine shooter and all-star, but he'd have his hands full keeping up with those two.
But really, that's all fluff. It comes down to this simple point: Malone, Robinson and Ewing make all the difference here. Too much size, power, and skill in that trio for Chandler, Love, and Griffin. Therein lies the biggest mismatch of all, and the deciding factor.
Edit: for the record, I don't think it would be a blowout. But in a 10 game series, I would pick the dream team to win 6-7 of those games.
This is one thing I've always liked about Kobe. He's always understood that nobody is so sacred, holy and infallible that they're beyond challenge. Nadal has the same attitude. "So what Roger Federer is great...I'm still going to kick his a--." I respect the Benny Blanco in him. You need that Benny Blanco/Marlo Stanfield mentality to be great.
Prop Joe: Don't you know a lot of young guys have worn the crown in Baltimore? What makes you think you won't end up like them?
Marlo: That's it. They WORE the crown. It's my time now.
Yep, Kobe's outsized attitude is what convinced him he didn't need Shaq.....and this year that he decided he needed to jack up 32 shots in a game or 10 in the fourth quarter to "carry" the team with old legs and outside shooting.
It is Kobe's great asset but also his great weakness.....
Good thread. I thought about starting the same thread after having this discussion with my brother.
I think this current crop of players is superior at the Guard/Swing Forward position. The Kobe/MJ matchup is a wash. Even at 34, I don't see anybody locking Kobe down. Durant, Anthony, LBJ and Westbrook is a lot of fire power. Chris Paul and Deron Williams could outplay John Stockton. Magic was past his prime in 1992. I think a very strong and physical Deron Williams would give him fits. Same thing goes for Larry Bird. He was well past his prime during the Barcelona games.
I'd take Lebron James in a matchup against Barkley, Jordan or Pippen. None of those guys are big or strong enough to guard him.
Malone, Robinson and Ewing are CLEARLY superior (skill wise) to this team's Bigs. But Love has got range and Howard has got, well...Howard has got....Howard has got....muscles? He can dunk really good.
I don't think the Dream Team would demolish this current team. From a historical perspective, yes, it's the greatest team, ever assembled, but that does not mean they would take to the court and demolish players in an era where basketball is more competitive, athletic, and the training more intense than it's ever been.
1. Jordan at 29 was better than Kobe. Period. At 34, it's not close. Sorry, Kobe was NEVER Jordan and sure as heck isn't with that 5 year gap. Shooting percentage, MVP's, rings, Finals MVP's....it's not close.
2. Howard isn't on the 2012 team due to injury.
3. STockton is every bit the match of those PG's. Seriously, he is in the discussion when people talk about the all-time great PG's why does everyone diss him? You just see a white guy and zone out? He is as good as Nash on Offense and CP3 on defense.
4. Bird and Magic weren't starters but you are 100% correct they weren't prime anymore....cough...just like Kobe.
5. Yes, Lebron is the match-up winner. Pippen is as good a defender as anyone to ever play the 3 position though...yes, as good as lebron defensively. His arms are also about 5 inches longer than they should be.
6. I 100% agree that they wouldn't demolish the 2012 team, especially if they got Howard. However, I have to say the 1996 team is better than 2012 as well.
This topic over the last few days has got me thinking about how fun a prime Pippen defending Lebron would be. Pippen by no means shuts him down, but he was essentially the perfect player match up wise. The kobe vs MJ thing isn't even fun, as Michael would own him.
This topic over the last few days has got me thinking about how fun a prime Pippen defending Lebron would be. Pippen by no means shuts him down, but he was essentially the perfect player match up wise. The kobe vs MJ thing isn't even fun, as Michael would own him.
Pippen just said they'd win by 25.
It'd be Ewing and Robinson all day down low IMO. Winning by 25 points though is a stretch.
I remember a little bit about the Dream Team in '92, I was 14.
-The games came on pay per view? It was some kind of package to get all the games. It was pretty expensive. I don't remember any of my friends seeing the games. This was before the internet and media explosion. I think the downside of the '92 Dream Team, more people didn't get to enjoy it while it was happening.
-It was a *staggering* amount of talent assembled in one place. Mullin was one of the weaker members (if you could call it that), and he was averaging 25 points a game, 50-53% FG percent shooting. He was coming off some really hot years. 25 points, 26, 25, 25.
People forget the field goal percentage these guys were shooting at. They were not slouches. Ewing 50-52%. Karl Malone 52%. Old Larry Bird was still shooting 38-40% from 3's.
Kevin Love, lol. He would get mauled by Ewing, Barkley, Malone. Love and Chandler would have been backup centers in the 90's.
-Poor John Stockton gets so little respect. All time career steal leader. All time assist leader. Westbrook, Paul, Williams they have ages to go to catch up to that.
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