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Well i wouldnt necessarily say either player had/ has physical limitations but when comparing the two Jordan was not as strong and powerful as Lebron. Jordan was one of the quickest, fastest, and most explosive players in the league but Lebron is not only one of the quickest, fastest, and most explosive players too hes also one of the most powerful. I think Lebrons the better athlete because he can do pretty much all of the things Jordan could (from a purely athletic standpoint) but Jordan couldnt do all of the things Lebron can do (such as guard a center if need be). All that being said at this point Jordan is still the better player.
It's funny that you mention strong, because there's multiple accounts of players telling how strong Jordan he was. I can post videos if you like. Quickness and explosiveness goes to Jordan hands down. I haven't seen a player as quick as MJ; his first step was deadly. Furthermore, MJ takeoff, full speed, change direction, accelerate, then stop on a dime...Lebron just goes straight. Guarding a center now isn't like guarding a center back then, when centers were acually centers and not "flopping" power forwards. But if you're measuring athleticism by who they can guard, then that would also make Rodman and Pippen more athletic than Lebron. Both players were shorter and smaller than Lebron, yet guarded centers like, David Robinson, a young Shaq, Olajuwan, Ewing (all of which would run laps around the NBA's current fleet).
I'm not sure about that. When they were both at there physical peak i'd say Michaels vertical was maybe 1 or 2 inches more but lebron is 2 inches taller with probably longer arms so I'd say Lebron could actually reach a higher point.
And Sean Kemp? theres no such player as Sean Kemp but Shawn Kemp was a good player and and athlete too bad he fell off so fast.
It's funny that you mention strong, because there's multiple accounts of players telling how strong Jordan he was. I can post videos if you like. Quickness and explosiveness goes to Jordan hands down. I haven't seen a player as quick as MJ; his first step was deadly. Furthermore, MJ takeoff, full speed, change direction, accelerate, then stop on a dime...Lebron just goes straight. Guarding a center now isn't like guarding a center back then, when centers were acually centers and not "flopping" power forwards. But if you're measuring athleticism by who they can guard, then that would also make Rodman and Pippen more athletic than Lebron. Both players were shorter and smaller than Lebron, yet guarded centers like, David Robinson, a young Shaq, Olajuwan, Ewing (all of which would run laps around the NBA's current fleet).
You make valid points and MJ was very strong, however, he was not one of the strongest guys in the league. At his postion, yes, but overall, no. Think about it, the game has changed since jordans peak athletic years (early to late 80's). The league is more athletically driven now. Back then there was a large portion of guys who were great skill players but not necessarily great athletes. Now just about every guy in the league is an absolute freak athlete. This isnt saying the leagues better now its just more athletic. If you put MJ (in his physical prime) in the league now he'd still be the best player, and a premier athlete, but he wouldnt look as athletic as he did in the 80's (because he was often surrounded by a number of players who werent necessarily great athletes). Also, about your hangtime comment, hangtime is not an actual concept. Any high school physics class could tell you that. If you can jump higher it will take an extra split second before you hit the ground again but it is physically impossible to just hang in the air, unless you jump so high that you go into orbit or something. The reason it looks as if people are "hanging" in the air is because they jump and freeze there body movements for a moment and for a split second it looks as though they are just hanging in mid air.
You make valid points and MJ was very strong, however, he was not one of the strongest guys in the league. At his postion, yes, but overall, no. Think about it, the game has changed since jordans peak athletic years (early to late 80's). The league is more athletically driven now. Back then there was a large portion of guys who were great skill players but not necessarily great athletes. Now just about every guy in the league is an absolute freak athlete. This isnt saying the leagues better now its just more athletic. If you put MJ (in his physical prime) in the league now he'd still be the best player, and a premier athlete, but he wouldnt look as athletic as he did in the 80's (because he was often surrounded by a number of players who werent necessarily great athletes). Also, about your hangtime comment, hangtime is not an actual concept. Any high school physics class could tell you that. If you can jump higher it will take an extra split second before you hit the ground again but it is physically impossible to just hang in the air, unless you jump so high that you go into orbit or something. The reason it looks as if people are "hanging" in the air is because they jump and freeze there body movements for a moment and for a split second it looks as though they are just hanging in mid air.
I would say that MJ peaked from the early 80's until the end of the first 3peat era. And I think it's funny that you say that he wouldn't look as athletic by today's standards, because arguably, the league's most athletic player, Russell Westbrook, is a slightly less athletic version of young MJ. Imagine how much quicker MJ would be against today's defense. MJ was beating players off the dribble while with the Wizards (Videos can prove this also). The only thing I could give Lebron over MJ is strength; MJ takes everything else.
Great skill will usually always trump great athleticism. I think its an exaggeration to say just about every player today is a freak athlete. Yes there are probably more great athletes today, but there are lots of prominent players who don't jump out of the gym. Kevin Love is average athletically but puts up 26 and 15. Steve Nash is still a premier point guard at 38, Jason Kidd is still a quality player at 39. A guy like Paul Pierce at 35 is still an allstar caliber player and was never that athletic, while Vince Carter at the same age rides the bench with Dallas and hasn't been relevant in 4 years.
And there were several great athletes in Jordan's day, if we're measuring athleticism on jumping, explosiveness, speed, etc. Pippen, Drexler, Dominique,Larry Nance, Spud Webb, Iverson, Kemp, Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill, young Barkley, Hakeem in terms of fluidity and co-ordination, Orlando Shaq....Ray Allen is known for shooting but he was very athletic when he was younger. What about lesser names like Isiah Rider, Harold Miner, Robert Pack, Rex Chapman(yes Rex Chapman has a reported 42 inch vertical if you can believe it)? You want speed? Try Isiah, Tim Hardaway, Kevin Johnson. Plenty of 'athletes' when MJ was in his prime.....
I'm not sure about that. When they were both at there physical peak i'd say Michaels vertical was maybe 1 or 2 inches more but lebron is 2 inches taller with probably longer arms so I'd say Lebron could actually reach a higher point.
And Sean Kemp? theres no such player as Sean Kemp but Shawn Kemp was a good player and and athlete too bad he fell off so fast.
Jordan has a vert at least 4" higher than lebron and their standing reach is about a 2" advantage for Lebron.
Thus vertical jumping reach is a 2" advantage for Jordan in their primes.
This was covered and documented in either this thread earlier or another thread....or you can look around the web.
Jordan has a vert at least 4" higher than lebron and their standing reach is about a 2" advantage for Lebron.
Thus vertical jumping reach is a 2" advantage for Jordan in their primes.
This was covered and documented in either this thread earlier or another thread....or you can look around the web.
[SIZE=3]Lebron ranks a lot farther ahead of Jordan in terms of strength then Jordan does over Lebron in quickness. Explosiveness idk, the vertical jump is often exaggerated. I don’t believe Michael Jordan’s vertical is 4” higher than Lebrons. Since your all about posting videos and pictures find me a picture or video where Michael Jordans head is completely above the rim, which is where it would have to be for him to have 4 inches on Lebron. A true vertical jump is without taking a step, just jumping straight up. Michael Jordan was 6’6, meaning the top of his head was 42 inches from the rim. When Michael was running and jumping I’d say the highest point he reached ever was maybe eye level with the rim so he was at most 45 inches off the ground, but a standing vertical is often 5 -7 inches shorter than that. So Michaels true vertical was about 38 – 40 inches at the most, while Lebron has gotten his nose at the rim and hes only 2 inches taller. Therefore Lebron was about the same height off the ground so there verticals are very similar. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Here is Lebron about nose level with the rim….now find me a video or picture where Jordans head is farther above the rim then that.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNOOoZZB9BY&feature=related[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Lebron ranks a lot farther ahead of Jordan in terms of strength then Jordan does over Lebron in quickness. Explosiveness idk, the vertical jump is often exaggerated. I don’t believe Michael Jordan’s vertical is 4” higher than Lebrons. Since your all about posting videos and pictures find me a picture or video where Michael Jordans head is completely above the rim, which is where it would have to be for him to have 4 inches on Lebron. A true vertical jump is without taking a step, just jumping straight up. Michael Jordan was 6’6, meaning the top of his head was 42 inches from the rim. When Michael was running and jumping I’d say the highest point he reached ever was maybe eye level with the rim so he was at most 45 inches off the ground, but a standing vertical is often 5 -7 inches shorter than that. So Michaels true vertical was about 38 – 40 inches at the most, while Lebron has gotten his nose at the rim and hes only 2 inches taller. Therefore Lebron was about the same height off the ground so there verticals are very similar. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Here is Lebron about nose level with the rim….now find me a video or picture where Jordans head is farther above the rim then that.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNOOoZZB9BY&feature=related[/SIZE]
I's pretty sure that both of them are over 40inches. I'm 6'1 and can get my head to the bottom of the backboard so that puts me much around 40.
Verts and standing reach are common information on players.
I'm done arguing with someone with less that 10 posts to their name who can't do the basic research.
The rest of you have fun with this short-bus thread.
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