U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Basketball
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-29-2012, 07:54 PM
 
4,399 posts, read 9,077,153 times
Reputation: 2352

Advertisements

Hope so. David Stern at it again.

David Stern promises 'substantial sanctions' for Spurs resting their stars - SBNation.com
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-30-2012, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC
3,850 posts, read 3,979,990 times
Reputation: 6519
I agree with David Stern on this one. San Antonio's practice of resting players is not consistent with the rest of the league. Heck, if most players missed games like Duncan and Manu they'd be labelled slackers or worse.

Besides, in the Spurs 6-game road trip, Popovich played Duncan, Parker, Manu and Green against Toronto, Washington and Orlando... why wouldn't he rest them in those easy games? Instead he chooses not to compete vs the best team in the league...cowardly.

Soccer often rests stars due to all the different competitions, but they don't rest them much for the big games. Manchester Utd is not going to play a B-team vs Chelsea.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-30-2012, 06:43 AM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,211,960 times
Reputation: 1982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back to NE View Post
I agree with David Stern on this one. San Antonio's practice of resting players is not consistent with the rest of the league. Heck, if most players missed games like Duncan and Manu they'd be labelled slackers or worse.

Besides, in the Spurs 6-game road trip, Popovich played Duncan, Parker, Manu and Green against Toronto, Washington and Orlando... why wouldn't he rest them in those easy games? Instead he chooses not to compete vs the best team in the league...cowardly.

Soccer often rests stars due to all the different competitions, but they don't rest them much for the big games. Manchester Utd is not going to play a B-team vs Chelsea.
ridiculous statement. duncan has not missed more then 8 games in a season since 2004-05, and the bulk of those where knee/ankle injuries.
as for manu, pop RARELY sits manu for rest, i can count on 1 hand how many times pop has sat manu for rest.

pop decided the day the schedule came out that he would rest them against miami, then considering the 2ot vs toronto, and the 4 games in 5 nights it was the best time. everyone expected the spurs to lose regardless last night so what difference did it make who played. on top of that the spurs have played 17 games in the 1st 31 days of the season, more then any other team. they have more road games so far then any other team not named denver.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-30-2012, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Cook County
5,288 posts, read 6,372,551 times
Reputation: 3070
I don't understand what Stern could punish them for. I get it sucks for TV purposes and maybe a little part of Pop is doing it for spite (I said little part), but I don't see what the crime is here. The spurs players have a lot of miles on them and it was the end of a long stretch of games. It makes sense to rest people in that spot.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-30-2012, 07:24 AM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,211,960 times
Reputation: 1982
stern fined the lakers 25k back in the 80's for sitting magic and 2 or 3 other players i forget which. its sterns iron fist, if he doesnt like something well "ill just fine you for it" even though there are no rules saying you have to play your stars at all. its dumb and anyone who thinks fining pop (or any coach) for doing it is just being silly, or sour grapes. funny because everyone always complains that the spurs are old and boring so whats the issue, the bulk of those complaining didnt plan on watching the game really anyway they just want another reason to hate on the spurs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-30-2012, 08:40 AM
 
Location: DMV
10,136 posts, read 11,668,529 times
Reputation: 3181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back to NE View Post
I agree with David Stern on this one. San Antonio's practice of resting players is not consistent with the rest of the league. Heck, if most players missed games like Duncan and Manu they'd be labelled slackers or worse.

Besides, in the Spurs 6-game road trip, Popovich played Duncan, Parker, Manu and Green against Toronto, Washington and Orlando... why wouldn't he rest them in those easy games? Instead he chooses not to compete vs the best team in the league...cowardly.

Soccer often rests stars due to all the different competitions, but they don't rest them much for the big games. Manchester Utd is not going to play a B-team vs Chelsea.
At first I agreed with Stern but then Kenny Smith made an excellent point during the post game show. He basically said what makes this any different than teams that rest their starters at the end of the year? If you are going to punish the Spurs then you have to punish those teams too. I know a number of teams that did this last year and was one of the reasons why the Wizards actually beat Miami twice. What makes it different?

And how is sitting them against Miami cowardly when they almost beat them with that team?

As far as those games against Toronto, Washington and Orlando, it makes sense why he would rest them for the Heat game because by then, they have just played 3 games in 4 nights. He may not have been looking at resting them in the future, but basically resting them as a result of the previous nights and the effect it had on his players.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-30-2012, 08:44 AM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,211,960 times
Reputation: 1982
hollinger wrote a very nice little piece about this.
NBA: David Stern's statement regarding San Antonio Spurs raises questions - ESPN

(its an insider piece so i C&P for those to cheap to pay for a suscription to espn the mag lol)

Quote:
If David Stern is trying to create enthusiasm for the start of the Adam Silver Era, he's off to a good start.

Stern's bizarre decision to announce the San Antonio Spurs would face as-yet-unnamed "substantial sanctions" -- calling it "unacceptable" without ever specifying why -- for sitting out four starters against Miami on Thursday night, bore all the classic tenets of bad management: Reactive, inconsistent, overbearing, and moving us no closer to a solution to the underlying issue.

Let's walk through it. Understandably, ticket-holders in Miami were upset they wouldn't get to see San Antonio's three All-Stars (although Southwest ticket holders in Orlando apparently were thrilled). Also understandably, so was TNT -- one of the league's national television rights holders who thought it would have a marquee game to televise.

While we ended up with a surprisingly good game -- a 105-100 Miami win decided in the final half-minute -- it's likely that some viewers turned off their sets when they saw the assorted de Colos and Josephs on the floor for San Antonio. Or that's the argument, anyway, although it breaks down when one considers the Spurs have pretty much been a form of TV-viewer repellent for several years now. (Seriously, I've probably written a hundred columns on the Spurs over the past decade, and this may be the first one that more than eight non-relatives outside the state of Texas will read.)

Nonetheless, let's walk through the four main problems I have with Stern's sudden decree:

Reactive. Popovich told our Brian Windhorst that he'd basically decided as soon as the schedule came out that he'd be resting his players for this game. Certainly if the league had given him some warning not to do it -- Popovich has done this several times before, remember -- he would have thought twice about enacting his plan.

More important, anyone with any familiarity with the Spurs could see this coming from a mile away. I wrote about it in my column Thursday morning, and it's not as if I'd had a sudden burst of clairvoyance; San Antonio Express-News beat writer Jeff McDonald had been warning fans for several days that the Spurs would likely tank this game.

Stern's reaction was to be Captain Renault in "Casablanca," shocked to learn that teams sometimes sit out healthy players in his league. Clearly he felt some blowback (probably from the networks more than fans) about what had happened, and immediately went into knee-jerk mode. But this was not some sudden, unexpected thunderbolt like the fight at the Palace. He should have been prepared for it.

FOLLOW THE NBA ON ESPN
Stay up to date with the latest NBA news, stories and analysis. Follow the NBA on ESPN on Twitter, Facebook and Google+:

Twitter Facebook Google+

Inconsistent. This is not the first time Popovich has done this; not even close. He never has been sanctioned, or warned, or even glanced at sideways. Last season he sat all his starters in a game at Portland just before the All-Star break, for instance, and unlike Thursday night that contest wasn't close at all: The Blazers won by 40. (A night remembered fondly out there as "the last time we thought the Blazers were good.") He also has done this a couple of other times over the past few years, nearly always at the end of a long road trip with a back-to-back set, like Thursday night's game at Miami.

Moreover, Popovich isn't the only one. You want a bad national TV game as a result of sitting stars? How about last year's Miami-Boston game on April 24, in which six of the seven All-Stars from the two different teams sat out because of assorted maladies, both real and imagined, and the result was a 78-66 abomination that may be the single-worst game I have ever seen in person. (Did I mention I flew up to cover this putrescence?) I'm still waiting to hear about the sanctions facing those two teams.

Or, more important, there's the little matter that the league is completely unwatchable in March and April because of all the rampant tanking taking place by teams out of the playoff chase, combined with playoff teams resting key players as well. Here's what I wrote after being subjected to that Heat-Celtics stinker last April, and my feelings haven't changed: Fixing the abominable quality of the last two months of the season is one of the bigger problems facing the league. The league has shown no real momentum toward addressing it.

But Popovich sitting out his starters for one game in November, so he can have a better team by the end of the season and win more games (which he usually does)? That's the problem that requires action?

Overbearing: So now we're going to have "substantial sanctions" for this event, that the Spurs had no idea was going to provoke a response from the league despite the ample and obvious warning signals they'd given that this would happen?

Great. So next time San Antonio wants to do this, it will be five percent harder. The Spurs will have to make up fake injuries, perhaps (how we missed you, "tendonitis," ever since the injured list went away), and probably have them chill on Miami Beach on game night instead of flying them home early from Orlando (that'll show 'em!). He might even have to choose a different game to tank -- I don't think we would have had such a commotion if Popovich had sent out the 'B' team against the Magic a night earlier, for instance.

Better yet, maybe if the commissioner is so concerned about fans being able to see the stars compete, he can tell us what sanctions he gave himself last Nov. 29, when nobody could see any games because the players were locked out.

Stern has just taken a running start down a mighty steep and slippery slope by essentially telling a team how to manage personnel. That's particularly true when it's a team trying to actually win and not that more common, depressing scenario of draft-inspired tanking. What if he orders Pop to play his guys and then Duncan gets hurt? Or at a lesser level, what if the Spurs lost a more important game upcoming against Memphis because they were tuckered out from this one and the long trip? These are the decisions coaches are making every day in this league, and they know their teams far better than Stern.

Not addressing the underlying problem. If the 82-game schedule is too taxing for virtually any player over the age of 25, and if back-to-backs at the end of long trips are particularly problematic, maybe the solution is not to throw the book at teams who try to manage for the long haul and have everybody in peak condition in June. (Sadly, there are a great many teams who don't fall under this banner.)

Maybe, just maybe, the problem is trying to schedule prominent national TV games with one of the teams on a back-to-back at the end of a long trip. Here's an idea: If you really want to make sure the TNT and ABC games are marquee events, then make sure both teams have a day off heading into it.

Instead, Stern's response essentially is to chastise the Spurs for being smarter than everybody else and figuring out that if you only contest, say, 79 of the 82 games on the schedule, you can come out of it in a lot better shape at the end.

I'll insert the caveat that there may be variables we don't know. Perhaps warnings were sent, wags of the finger given, and all of it happened behind the scenes. I still don't agree with it, for all the reasons given above, but it would seem maybe five percent more sensible than it does now.

Nonetheless, the initial takeaway from this affair is that this was a fit of Selig-ian lunacy not befitting of the best commissioner in sports history. One hopes that the league will sit down and take a more reasoned approach before deciding its "substantial" sanctions ... unless, that is, one of those sanctions involves Popovich taking extra questions in his between-quarter TV interviews. In that case, everybody wins.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-30-2012, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC
3,850 posts, read 3,979,990 times
Reputation: 6519
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgtitans View Post
At first I agreed with Stern but then Kenny Smith made an excellent point during the post game show. He basically said what makes this any different than teams that rest their starters at the end of the year? If you are going to punish the Spurs then you have to punish those teams too. I know a number of teams that did this last year and was one of the reasons why the Wizards actually beat Miami twice. What makes it different?

And how is sitting them against Miami cowardly when they almost beat them with that team?

As far as those games against Toronto, Washington and Orlando, it makes sense why he would rest them for the Heat game because by then, they have just played 3 games in 4 nights. He may not have been looking at resting them in the future, but basically resting them as a result of the previous nights and the effect it had on his players.
Because they probably would have beaten them at full strength.

But imagine the league if all teams rested stars so regularly to save their best for the playoffs? The quality of regular season games would really drop. Resting stars at the end of the season (usually just the last 2 games or so) has been accepted (in football too). BTW, last year was much different with a dangerously condensed schedule.

Sorry, it was a lameass move by the Spurs and could lead to a slippery slope of lousy games in the future. Matter of fact, up 3-0 in the playoffs, why not rest a bunch of starters? Or when rookies hit the wall, rest them too. We can get used to watching more and more D-league/taxi-squad type players filling in.

I wonder what Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and John Stockton think about this... these are warriors who showed up every day.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-30-2012, 10:10 AM
 
Location: DMV
10,136 posts, read 11,668,529 times
Reputation: 3181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back to NE View Post
Because they probably would have beaten them at full strength.

But imagine the league if all teams rested stars so regularly to save their best for the playoffs? The quality of regular season games would really drop. Resting stars at the end of the season (usually just the last 2 games or so) has been accepted (in football too). BTW, last year was much different with a dangerously condensed schedule.

Sorry, it was a lameass move by the Spurs and could lead to a slippery slope of lousy games in the future. Matter of fact, up 3-0 in the playoffs, why not rest a bunch of starters? Or when rookies hit the wall, rest them too. We can get used to watching more and more D-league/taxi-squad type players filling in.

I wonder what Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and John Stockton think about this... these are warriors who showed up every day.
Did you see the Spurs schedule? They just showed the difference of the Spurs and Heat's schedule so far on Sportscenter this morning. The Spurs have played 11 road games so far, the Heat have played 14 TOTAL GAMES!!!! And having 4 games in 5 nights is exactly the same type of schedule as was happening last year. The argument that you made about last year's schedule is the reason why this seems valid because the Spurs schedule so far has been pretty much the same.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-30-2012, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Akron, OH
1,618 posts, read 1,597,279 times
Reputation: 861
I think it's cowardly to sit your players when your playing the defending champs. If you want to sit them then why not for the Orlando game? I can understand sitting players at the end of the season when your playoff position is locked up but sitting players in November, that's unacceptable. You have to remember that people pay a lot of money to attend these games. Look at Kobe, he just had the flu the other day. He could have sat out and no one would have said a thing but he still played. A player can get hurt in the 1st game or the last game. Tired is no excuse.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Basketball
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top