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Old 03-24-2013, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Mequon, WI
7,835 posts, read 19,562,238 times
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Here are the numbers, In the last 13 years, the only seeds to reach the conference finals were the #1-4 seeds. In the last 13 years a #4 seed has made it to the Finals only 2 twice and never won. In the last 13 years the #3 seed has only won 4 times, the rest were #1 and #2 seeds. In the modern NBA you have to be at least #4 seed to make it to the Conference Finals and at least #3 seed if you want any chance at winning a NBA Championship. Seeds #5-8 mean absolutely nothing and give you no chance at a NBA Finals appearance. Before everyone mentions the 1999 NY Knicks, it was a shorten season and albeit an outlier anyways. In the last 13 years a 5 seed hasn't even made it to the Conference Finals. In the last 13 years a 4 seed has made it to the conference finals only 5 times. In the last 13 years a 4 seed only has a made the eastern conference finals twice! and the western conference finals 3 times in the last 13 years.

It's hard to enjoy the NBA of you are not a 1-4 seed, a 5 seed statistically has the same outcome as an 8 seed. Even if your team is a 4 seed going into the playoffs you're really counting on only a %15 chance of making the NBA finals based upon the last 13 years. Yes one of these years a 4 seed will win a NBA Championship but in the current modern era It might be 25 years before it happens. Yes in 1995 the Rockets won the NBA Championship for the first time ever for a 6th Seed.

You have to go back to 1981 for a 6th seed to make it to the Finals before the 95 Rockets which it was the Rockets again and they lost that series 4-2 but even back then only 6 teams made the playoffs. You have to go back to 1978 when the other 4 seed made it to the NBA Finals which Seattle lost to the Bullets 4-3.

Maybe Lebron was right when he said maybe the NBA need to get rid of some teams, and maybe my Milwaukee Bucks is one of those teams. Milwaukee being the 2nd smallest media market at 2.5M maybe just doesn't provide enough support for an owner to make his team competitive.

Baseball, just make it to the playoffs, NFL, just make it to the playoffs, NHL, just make it to the playoffs

NBA just make it to the 1-2 seed to have a good chance at winning and a 3 seed for a good chance to make the Finals, 4 seed well, only a 15% chance on making the NBA Finals.

Maybe the NBA needs to cut 4 teams from each league, whatever they do nothing will be done until Stern is gone and his predecessor is a student of David Stern so I doubt much will change.

I think we need more parody in the NBA because right now, it's not that there isn't enough, there is none at all!


List of NBA champions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 03-24-2013, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Born & Raised DC > Carolinas > Seattle > Denver
9,349 posts, read 5,560,851 times
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Nice post. Just goes to show how little parity there is in the NBA.
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Old 03-24-2013, 05:40 PM
 
462 posts, read 335,139 times
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There has never been parity in the NBA. And who is to say that parity would be good for pro basketball?

The reason why teams 4-8 don't win the NBA championship is because they don't feature top 10 or 12 players in the league. The only way to get those guys is through trades (highly unlikely), free agent signings (it's going to cost a lot of money) or being bad (and hitting the lottery).

Plus, the NBA has always been a star driven league. If you have one or two star players on your side, the chances are a trip to the championship round would be in your future. It's been that way well before Stern came along.

You can feed your best players (LeBron, Kobe, Durant, Jordan, Duncan, Hakeem, Shaq) the ball every time down the floor to affect the outcome of games more significantly that in the NFL, NHL and MLB, where those opportunities just don't exist as frequently because of the way games are dictated. The best three sluggers on your team can't hit every inning.

The elite winger like Patrick Kane, while a great playmaker, can be controlled on the ice more so than an elite basketball player like LeBron. Adrian Peterson, as great as he is, can't be fed the rock continuously if his team is trailing by multiple scores late in the game.

Basketball lends itself to a lack of randomness. The other sports are quite unpredictable in terms of who wins and loses because the playing field is more even.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:39 AM
 
51,862 posts, read 41,765,307 times
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You never see parity in NBA basketball because it's 5 on 5 playing both ways.

If you have a Lebron, you have an enormous advantage.

In baseball, even if you have the greatest pitcher ever they still might only play 2 of 7 games in a series and even then baseball lends itself to variation since 1 bad pitch can mean the difference in a game plus even then the pitcher is only playing "defense" and is a detriment to offense.

Football, very similar plus the brutal nature of the sport shortens careers and hampers performances as guys play hurt.

College basketball has more parity like in the tournament because:
1) Top tier players don't stick around for 4 years. When they did, there was less parity.
2) They play 1 game elimination.

If you want to spice up the NBA, make it a best of 3 series or single elimination etc.

My Bulls can beat the Heat in a single game, maybe a 3 game series but no way they win a 7 game series.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:42 AM
 
51,862 posts, read 41,765,307 times
Reputation: 32364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milwaukee City View Post
Here are the numbers, In the last 13 years, the only seeds to reach the conference finals were the #1-4 seeds. In the last 13 years a #4 seed has made it to the Finals only 2 twice and never won. In the last 13 years the #3 seed has only won 4 times, the rest were #1 and #2 seeds. In the modern NBA you have to be at least #4 seed to make it to the Conference Finals and at least #3 seed if you want any chance at winning a NBA Championship. Seeds #5-8 mean absolutely nothing and give you no chance at a NBA Finals appearance. Before everyone mentions the 1999 NY Knicks, it was a shorten season and albeit an outlier anyways. In the last 13 years a 5 seed hasn't even made it to the Conference Finals. In the last 13 years a 4 seed has made it to the conference finals only 5 times. In the last 13 years a 4 seed only has a made the eastern conference finals twice! and the western conference finals 3 times in the last 13 years.

It's hard to enjoy the NBA of you are not a 1-4 seed, a 5 seed statistically has the same outcome as an 8 seed. Even if your team is a 4 seed going into the playoffs you're really counting on only a %15 chance of making the NBA finals based upon the last 13 years. Yes one of these years a 4 seed will win a NBA Championship but in the current modern era It might be 25 years before it happens. Yes in 1995 the Rockets won the NBA Championship for the first time ever for a 6th Seed.

You have to go back to 1981 for a 6th seed to make it to the Finals before the 95 Rockets which it was the Rockets again and they lost that series 4-2 but even back then only 6 teams made the playoffs. You have to go back to 1978 when the other 4 seed made it to the NBA Finals which Seattle lost to the Bullets 4-3.

Maybe Lebron was right when he said maybe the NBA need to get rid of some teams, and maybe my Milwaukee Bucks is one of those teams. Milwaukee being the 2nd smallest media market at 2.5M maybe just doesn't provide enough support for an owner to make his team competitive.

Baseball, just make it to the playoffs, NFL, just make it to the playoffs, NHL, just make it to the playoffs

NBA just make it to the 1-2 seed to have a good chance at winning and a 3 seed for a good chance to make the Finals, 4 seed well, only a 15% chance on making the NBA Finals.

Maybe the NBA needs to cut 4 teams from each league, whatever they do nothing will be done until Stern is gone and his predecessor is a student of David Stern so I doubt much will change.

I think we need more parody in the NBA because right now, it's not that there isn't enough, there is none at all!


List of NBA champions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The point of watching the lower seeds is to see how teams develop and gain playoff experience.

Plus you are putting the cart before the horse complaining about the lower seeds because guess what? They are the worse teams so it's not like they are being screwed by the seeding or something.

P.S. Tell me Gonzag loses a 7 game series to the guys that just knocked them out of the NCAA tourney. Nope. It's the playoff format.
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Born & Raised DC > Carolinas > Seattle > Denver
9,349 posts, read 5,560,851 times
Reputation: 9446
Though it seems to be becoming the norm in pro sports, the one thing I hate about the NBA is the freedom players have to pick and choose where they end up. I know free agency allows that, but the way Dwayne Wade, lebron james, and Bosh colluded to build their own all-star team just makes me sick.

This isn't my opinon either, its a fact. Its been documented that Bosh, Wade, and Lebron got together 3-4 years ago and all signed similar deals that would make them free agents at the same time....then they'd figure out a place to all end up. And obviously they chose Miami. I mean, you've got star players talking behind closed doors about buidling their own "super team." and obviously its working because the way Miami is looking these days, they'll end up with anywhere from 2-4 rings by the time their reign is over.

As Math Guy said, in baseball and football the impact of landing big name stars doesn't have as big an impact because there's 9 and 11 guys on the field...where as bball its only 5. Lebron, Wade, and Bosh were able to land 3 of the top 30 guys in the NBA on 1 team, and they're now tearing it up. I'm not mad at them so much as I am the system that allows crap like this to happen.

Lebron, Wade and Bosh with the Heat, D. Howard and Steve Nash to the Lakers, Tyson Chandler and melo to the Knicks. the NBA is all about "the top 5 teams who can build the best teams through free agency," and then the other 25 teams, especially the smaller markets, get left in the dust.

Lebron couldn't wait to get out of Cleveland, Bosh wanted out of Toronto, Melo wanted out of Denver, D. Will wanted out of Utah. All the star players build up their reputation as being an all-stars, and then just leave whatever small market team drafted them to go play in the bright lights of a big city, like LAL, LAC, MIA, NYK, BKN, etc. i HATE that about the nba.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:12 PM
 
51,862 posts, read 41,765,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skins_fan82 View Post
Though it seems to be becoming the norm in pro sports, the one thing I hate about the NBA is the freedom players have to pick and choose where they end up. I know free agency allows that, but the way Dwayne Wade, lebron james, and Bosh colluded to build their own all-star team just makes me sick.

This isn't my opinon either, its a fact. Its been documented that Bosh, Wade, and Lebron got together 3-4 years ago and all signed similar deals that would make them free agents at the same time....then they'd figure out a place to all end up. And obviously they chose Miami. I mean, you've got star players talking behind closed doors about buidling their own "super team." and obviously its working because the way Miami is looking these days, they'll end up with anywhere from 2-4 rings by the time their reign is over.

As Math Guy said, in baseball and football the impact of landing big name stars doesn't have as big an impact because there's 9 and 11 guys on the field...where as bball its only 5. Lebron, Wade, and Bosh were able to land 3 of the top 30 guys in the NBA on 1 team, and they're now tearing it up. I'm not mad at them so much as I am the system that allows crap like this to happen.

Lebron, Wade and Bosh with the Heat, D. Howard and Steve Nash to the Lakers, Tyson Chandler and melo to the Knicks. the NBA is all about "the top 5 teams who can build the best teams through free agency," and then the other 25 teams, especially the smaller markets, get left in the dust.

Lebron couldn't wait to get out of Cleveland, Bosh wanted out of Toronto, Melo wanted out of Denver, D. Will wanted out of Utah. All the star players build up their reputation as being an all-stars, and then just leave whatever small market team drafted them to go play in the bright lights of a big city, like LAL, LAC, MIA, NYK, BKN, etc. i HATE that about the nba.
My 2 cents:

1) Lebron stayed in Cleveland for 7-8years, Orlando and Cleveland have been 2 of the worst run teams in the league. I can imagine he would have stayed if they'd been better run.

2) The Lakers got Howard because they traded Bynum. The Lakers are a very well run team and have made some great roster moves over the year like unloading Bynum when his stock was super high. LAC has been one of the worst franchises in the NBA over the decades. Their recent success is more aberration. Nash-van-winkle isn't worth mentioning.

3) The NY Knicks gave up a ton of value for Melo, who also played for for Denver for 7-8 years. Denver isn't exactly a small market either and look how they are doing post-trade? The knicks failure as an organization is well documented in other threads.

Basically, I think a number of your complaints are aimed at the BADLY RUN small market teams that get lottery picks over and over and over can never build around those players. I mean look at OKC and some other small market teams success.

If you really think about it, it's just logical that the worst operated teams get the best draft picks who then don't want to stay there.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:14 PM
 
51,862 posts, read 41,765,307 times
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Without question, I think it's the 7 game playoff format that makes the NBA so much more predictable.

That's the 800lb gorilla.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:57 PM
 
462 posts, read 335,139 times
Reputation: 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by skins_fan82 View Post
Though it seems to be becoming the norm in pro sports, the one thing I hate about the NBA is the freedom players have to pick and choose where they end up. I know free agency allows that, but the way Dwayne Wade, lebron james, and Bosh colluded to build their own all-star team just makes me sick.

This isn't my opinon either, its a fact. Its been documented that Bosh, Wade, and Lebron got together 3-4 years ago and all signed similar deals that would make them free agents at the same time....then they'd figure out a place to all end up. And obviously they chose Miami. I mean, you've got star players talking behind closed doors about buidling their own "super team." and obviously its working because the way Miami is looking these days, they'll end up with anywhere from 2-4 rings by the time their reign is over.

As Math Guy said, in baseball and football the impact of landing big name stars doesn't have as big an impact because there's 9 and 11 guys on the field...where as bball its only 5. Lebron, Wade, and Bosh were able to land 3 of the top 30 guys in the NBA on 1 team, and they're now tearing it up. I'm not mad at them so much as I am the system that allows crap like this to happen.

Lebron, Wade and Bosh with the Heat, D. Howard and Steve Nash to the Lakers, Tyson Chandler and melo to the Knicks. the NBA is all about "the top 5 teams who can build the best teams through free agency," and then the other 25 teams, especially the smaller markets, get left in the dust.

Lebron couldn't wait to get out of Cleveland, Bosh wanted out of Toronto, Melo wanted out of Denver, D. Will wanted out of Utah. All the star players build up their reputation as being an all-stars, and then just leave whatever small market team drafted them to go play in the bright lights of a big city, like LAL, LAC, MIA, NYK, BKN, etc. i HATE that about the nba.

And why would you hate that employees have the ability to decide where they want to work, especially considering those players coming out of college don't get to choose their employer?
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Old 03-25-2013, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Born & Raised DC > Carolinas > Seattle > Denver
9,349 posts, read 5,560,851 times
Reputation: 9446
agreed @ mathguy, its true that the small markets do a poor job or surrounding these guys with the talent they ask for (like lebron asked cleveland). and I agree with you wild100, players serve out their rookie contracts before moving elsewhere.

i guess I'm just a stubborn old man when it comes to the way free agency works in the NBA. When I hear well-respected old school players like Charles Barkley and Dominique Wilkins talk about how they would NEVER, EVER join one of their rival players in order to win a ring. Barkley would never join Jordan in Chicago, Wilkins would never join Ewing in New York, etc. the old school players mentality would never have a mindset of "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em." Again, I'm kind of a "get off my lawn" guy when it comes to that issue, but rules are rules and players are free to do whatever they want as free agents. But to literally conspire with some of your biggest rivals (Bosh, Wade, Lebron all played against each other in the eastern conference) and get together and say "hey, lets all play together and build our own all-star team, it kinda rubs me the wrong way.
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