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Old 05-05-2013, 10:08 PM
 
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Old 05-06-2013, 07:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by EugeneOnegin View Post
Defensive liability, pounded the ball into the ground while everyone else stood around watching, bad attitude, inefficient chucker, no real position, had trouble fitting in with other back court players, coaches didn't like him...he's exactly the type of guy that belongs on that list. Lebron, Bird, Magic, etc. would be great on any team, not just a custom-built team designed to mask their laundry list of issues.
The 2001 playoffs Iverson shot <39% from the field.
His career FG% in the playoffs is only about 40%. That's godawful. (Kobe is around 45% and Jordan 49%, that's an extra 3 - 6 pts a game on average which is huge.)

Against the Lakers he averaged 33 shots a game, shot 40.7%.

The reason Philly won game 1 wasn't because of Iverson....he took 41 shots at a so-so <44% FG.

It was because Kobe, Grant, Fish and Horry shot a combined 11/42 from the field or 26%.

Shaq took 13 fewer shots and wound up with 4 fewer pts. than Iverson that game.

Philadelphia 76ers at Los Angeles Lakers Box Score, June 6, 2001 | Basketball-Reference.com
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:28 AM
FBJ FBJ started this thread
 
Location: Tall Building down by the river
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Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
The 2001 playoffs Iverson shot <39% from the field.
His career FG% in the playoffs is only about 40%. That's godawful. (Kobe is around 45% and Jordan 49%, that's an extra 3 - 6 pts a game on average which is huge.)

Against the Lakers he averaged 33 shots a game, shot 40.7%.

The reason Philly won game 1 wasn't because of Iverson....he took 41 shots at a so-so <44% FG.

It was because Kobe, Grant, Fish and Horry shot a combined 11/42 from the field or 26%.

Shaq took 13 fewer shots and wound up with 4 fewer pts. than Iverson that game.

Philadelphia 76ers at Los Angeles Lakers Box Score, June 6, 2001 | Basketball-Reference.com

The Lakers actually had the game won in OT because I remember them being up by 5 with a minute and some change left in the game and then the Sixers scored on a lucky shot by Raja Bell, a three by Iverson and another luck shot by Eric Snow.

I really wanted to see the lakers go undefeated in the playoffs that year.
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by WestPhillyDude75 View Post
I don't recall the East being that bad during that time because of the Raptors and Bucks. Plus Iverson was scoring 50 pts more than once in the same series so I definitely have to separate him from Melo, Carter, McGrady, and Francis.
The NBA was historically lopsided during that time. That was right after the first lockout. The East really hasn't recovered since, but during that time, it was probably the worst it had been from the lockout until now.
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:07 AM
FBJ FBJ started this thread
 
Location: Tall Building down by the river
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Originally Posted by pgtvatitans View Post
The NBA was historically lopsided during that time. That was right after the first lockout. The East really hasn't recovered since, but during that time, it was probably the worst it had been from the lockout until now.


The Pistons started to emerge in the early 2000's with Big Ben
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Originally Posted by EugeneOnegin View Post
Melo is more Allen Iverson/Steve Francis/Vince Carer/Tracy McGracy than he is Magic/Lebron/Bird/Duncan.

I like to look at players in terms of how much they contribute to the team winning games. Some guys have tons of talent but don't do the things necessary to win, like defense, rebounding, hustling, making smart plays, sharing the ball, knowing when to defer or when to shoot, knowing the situation, taking charges, managing fouls, keeping their cool, etc. Other guys aren't the most talented guys in the league but they're guys that do the dirty work, don't make dumb mistakes, and help you get wins (e.g. Tony Allen, Nick Collison, Derick Fisher, etc.). And then there are the rare guys who have tons of talent and do the things necessary to win (Magic/Lebron/Bird/Jordan/Duncan/Kareem/Hakeem, etc.). Melo is not that type of player. His talent level far exceeds his impact on the game.
Fair assessment. Melo is a talented scorer but when his shot is off, he doesn't contribute to a high level in any other category that would make up for an off-shooting night.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by WestPhillyDude75 View Post
The Pistons started to emerge in the early 2000's with Big Ben
They were developing. At that point, they had just got Richard Hamilton and Chauncey Billups. And of course they didn't even get Rasheed Wallace until the year they won their championship. They gradually improved, but the year they won, they had really good chemistry and Wallace pushed them over the top. Unfortunately, they screwed the team up by getting rid of Billups and it went downhill after that. Overall they were one of maybe two or three really good East teams during that time.

Since the lockout, which was 13 years ago, there has only been 4 East teams that have won the championship (Pistons, Celtics, Heat twice). That's probably the clearest sign of the lack of talent in the east.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:55 AM
FBJ FBJ started this thread
 
Location: Tall Building down by the river
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Originally Posted by pgtvatitans View Post
They were developing. At that point, they had just got Richard Hamilton and Chauncey Billups. And of course they didn't even get Rasheed Wallace until the year they won their championship. They gradually improved, but the year they won, they had really good chemistry and Wallace pushed them over the top. Unfortunately, they screwed the team up by getting rid of Billups and it went downhill after that. Overall they were one of maybe two or three really good East teams during that time.

Since the lockout, which was 13 years ago, there has only been 4 East teams that have won the championship (Pistons, Celtics, Heat twice). That's probably the clearest sign of the lack of talent in the east.

I been watching the NBA since 1985 and I always remember the West being the stronger conference. And even though the Heat are the best team like the Bulls was in the 90's, the West overall is still the stronger conference.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Michigan
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Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
Fair assessment. Melo is a talented scorer but when his shot is off, he doesn't contribute to a high level in any other category that would make up for an off-shooting night.
I'm not going to say the Knick's offense would be better without him, but there's also difference between getting 25 points the way Durant does it and getting 25 points the way Melo does it. Durant stays within the flow of the offense, he moves without the ball, he keeps his teammates involved. Melo isolates a lot and his teammates end up standing around watching him causing the offense to stagnate and become more predictable and easier to guard.
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Michigan
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Originally Posted by pgtvatitans View Post
Since the lockout, which was 13 years ago, there has only been 4 East teams that have won the championship (Pistons, Celtics, Heat twice). That's probably the clearest sign of the lack of talent in the east.
Only 3 Western Conference teams have won since then, but it's 10 championships for the West vs. 4 for the east.

Shows how good Shaq and Duncan were. One of the two won the championship every year for 9 years in a row. If they had been in opposite conferences they would have been playing each other in the finals practically every year for a decade.
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