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Old 05-14-2013, 01:24 PM
 
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He is a pleasure to watch. His unselfishness will be manifested in his having more assists than Kobe and Michael combined when he retires!
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Kobe and Jordan combined have 11,510 assists. Lebron after 10 seasons has 5302. While he assists at a higher clip than both he'd have to play, at his current pace, another 10+ full seasons for that to happen. Let's also not discount that Jordan and Kobe spent the majority of their career playing in the triangle offense, which by design limits any player's ability to amass high assist totals. Jordan averaged 8 assists the season before Phil came onboard, and let's not forget that Scottie Pippen developed into the role of being the point man for the triangle and himself was averaging 5-7 assists in his prime. I think it's fair to say that spending their entire careers in the same kind of carte blanche offense that Lebron has enjoyed throughout his career, those two would average 7+ assists for their career as well( at least Jordan would have, as it is he averaged 6.2 for his career to go with a 30ppg average).

Last edited by Roman77; 05-14-2013 at 01:49 PM..
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:09 PM
 
51,917 posts, read 41,791,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smittyjohnny38 View Post
He is a pleasure to watch. His unselfishness will be manifested in his having more assists than Kobe and Michael combined when he retires!
Well, that's one way to mangle the numbers.

At comparable ages Lebron is a 27-8-7 guy and Jordan was a 32-7-6 guy.

You are failing to adjust for all the past-prime years Jordan played basketball and different roles in different systems.

At their peak, lebron is netting an extra reb and assist while Jordan is putting up 5 more points. Not exactly an enormous difference.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
Kobe and Jordan combined have 11,510 assists. Lebron after 10 seasons has 5302. While he assists at a higher clip than both he'd have to play, at his current pace, another 10+ full seasons for that to happen. Let's also not discount that Jordan and Kobe spent the majority of their career playing in the triangle offense, which by design limits any player's ability to amass high assist totals. Jordan averaged 8 assists the season before Phil came onboard, and let's not forget that Scottie Pippen developed into the role of being the point man for the triangle and himself was averaging 5-7 assists in his prime. I think it's fair to say that spending their entire careers in the same kind of carte blanche offense that Lebron has enjoyed throughout his career, those two would average 7+ assists for their career as well( at least Jordan would have, as it is he averaged 6.2 for his career to go with a 30ppg average).
Can we find some of the threads about Kobe from 2-3 years or so ago where people kept extrapolating his scoring, titles, MVP's out for another 5-6 years assuming that players don't fall-off and start having injury problem in their 30's?

Nobody wants to see any of the greats slow down or get hurt but that's what happens to ALL of them and the people that project guys out to age 38-39 with no notable decline are almost certainly newer NBA fans.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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I would agree that Lebron is less selfish than Jordan. But who cares? As Jordan said in his HOF speech, "There may not be an I in T-E-A-M,but there is an I in W-I-N."

I do think Lebron is a better passer than both Kobe and Jordan. His floor vision is incredible and I can't think of any superstar/scorers who are (were) better at leading the fast break than him. He's got a lot of Earvin Johnson in him...that's for sure.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:23 PM
 
Location: The City
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What about Magic
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:27 PM
 
Location: In a cave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Well, that's one way to mangle the numbers.

At comparable ages Lebron is a 27-8-7 guy and Jordan was a 32-7-6 guy.

You are failing to adjust for all the past-prime years Jordan played basketball and different roles in different systems.

At their peak, lebron is netting an extra reb and assist while Jordan is putting up 5 more points. Not exactly an enormous difference.
Did you bring up the hand-check era Jordan played in (much more difficult defense) and the steals per game?

I think Jordan wins outright because of similar numbers, more championships (no way LBJ gets even close to 6) and more difficult scoring rules for offense.

Jordan also hand to deal with ridiculous defenders/shot blockers at the PF/C position that no longer permeates the NBA like it was in the Jordan days.

I'm a huge LBJ fan, but Jordan is the gold standard IMO.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,237,774 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derosterreich View Post
Did you bring up the hand-check era Jordan played in (much more difficult defense) and the steals per game?
An interesting conversation (interesting to me anyway) for another thread is whether the handchecking rule, and handchecking itself, makes that big a difference at the end of the day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by derosterreich View Post
I'm a huge LBJ fan, but Jordan is the gold standard IMO.
The OP didn't say he was better. He just said he was less selfish.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:41 PM
 
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All good commentary.

The handchecking etc. worked both ways. People complained about Jordan getting away with a lot but that was because the era was a lot more "pushy shovey" and the refs were calling it that way at both ends.

I think the problem is trying to compare the various greats which is impossible due to their unique abilities.

Comparing Lebron to Jordan and Kobe isn't even accurate IMO....I think you'd be way better off comparing him to Magic or even comparing him to a Pippen with better scoring considering their versatility.

I think that's an interesting point, people are trying to compare Lebron to guys that were also great, but that had different games. I think it's maybe better to compare him to more similar players that weren't quite at his level of play?
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Old 05-15-2013, 03:15 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Lebron is an amalgamation of Pippen, Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway with greater physicality and more potent scoring ability( though, we were robbed of seeing what Penny's prime would have been like without injuries, he had great scoring skills but similar to Lebron had a pass-first mentality).

It would have been interesting to see prime Jordan in today's league. At his peak he combined the driving skills of Wade and Lebron, and the midrange game of someone like Kobe into one package. 89-93 Jordan is still the most dynamic perimeter talent I've seen.
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