Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Actually, I'm very much aware that the Hall's not exclusive to NBA players, you're just ASSuming and double-talking out of your mouth, as well as I am of Gino's resume'. What I've never understood, is how you Manu supporters just throw up his resume', and state how it's HOF worthy, without providing any barometers or set precedents as to which Ginobili's supposedly surpassing or meeting. For instance, he's obviously not a HOF from just his NBA resume'; comparing his numbers and achievements to even Chauncey Billups, makes him a very inferior candidate, as no one really considers Billups a HOF prospect.
So then it comes to his International career. I guess just playing, and achieving any darn thing'll get you in the Hall as an International player? I guess if Indianapolis makes some noise here in the next few years, Scola will make the Hall. Anthony Parker will even get some consideration. Hell, if Danilo Gallinari can stay healthy and land on a contender, he'll make the Hall too I guess.
See, that's the problem. We've actually discussed aspects of this before around here and know about guys like Sabonis.
That's why I suggested you look into Sabonis who made the HOF 6+ years ago.
You haven't done your homework and then rant and rave about David Robinson and Duncan and frankly it's bizarre and just isn't worth having a conversation with someone that refuses to bring themselves up to speed.
After you've read up on the other euros in the HOF like Sabonis, if you want to debate whether it's fair or that guys like Sabonis shouldn't be in or that there should be a separate NBA HOF then I would be happy to do so.
See, that's the problem. We've actually discussed aspects of this before around here and know about guys like Sabonis.
That's why I suggested you look into Sabonis who made the HOF 6+ years ago.
You haven't done your homework and then rant and rave about David Robinson and Duncan and frankly it's bizarre and just isn't worth having a conversation with someone that refuses to bring themselves up to speed.
After you've read up on the other euros in the HOF like Sabonis, if you want to debate whether it's fair or that guys like Sabonis shouldn't be in or that there should be a separate NBA HOF then I would be happy to do so.
Oh, I almost forgot.
2008
Kobe
Iverson
Wade*
Carter
Redd
Johnson
Ellis
Martin
Were all better than Gino
2011
Kobe
Ellis
Wade
Johnson
Martin
Gordon
Were all better than Gino.
And yes, I'm aware of Arvydas' international career. Gino's international career pales in comparison to his. You have people talking of Arvydas just crushing Robinson when he played against him (which isn't true), and saying he's this mold of Yao Ming, Chris Paul, and Shaquille (obvious exaggeration, but you get my point of how people talk about him). He fits the part of a bonafide legend (even if I disagree with how good he'd be if he had played in America in his prime); however I'm just not seein' it for Mr. Manu
2008
Kobe
Iverson
Wade*
Carter
Redd
Johnson
Ellis
Martin
Were all better than Gino
2011
Kobe
Ellis
Wade
Johnson
Martin
Gordon
Were all better than Gino.
And yes, I'm aware of Arvydas' international career. Gino's international career pales in comparison to his. You have people talking of Arvydas just crushing Robinson when he played against him (which isn't true), and saying he's this mold of Yao Ming, Chris Paul, and Shaquille (obvious exaggeration, but you get my point of how people talk about him). He fits the part of a bonafide legend (even if I disagree with how good he'd be if he had played in America in his prime); however I'm just not seein' it for Mr. Manu
LOL....your little meltdown when I pointed out Ginobli nuking team USA for 29 was classic. First came the excuse that he got lucky....then you tried to attack the Spurs fans by mentioning Duncan....blah blah blah lol.
He was the 2004 MVP of the Olympics. Cry, moan, whatever....that's legit in 2004.
We will have to agree to disagree.
So what do you think about Kukoc's chances this year?
LOL....your little meltdown when I pointed out Ginobli nuking team USA for 29 was classic. First came the excuse that he got lucky....then you tried to attack the Spurs fans by mentioning Duncan....blah blah blah lol.
He was the 2004 MVP of the Olympics. Cry, moan, whatever....that's legit in 2004.
We will have to agree to disagree.
So what do you think about Kukoc's chances this year?
I guess if you constitute THAT a meltdown, well hell...
And NO, I don't see Kukoc making it--- BUT, then again I could be wrong. I'm honestly surprised his name is even up for consideration. What, was he his days' Manu Ginobili, more or less? I don't remember him being THIS good when he was playing, at least Ginobili was contending for a Finals MVP
Last edited by Mr. Black; 10-22-2013 at 11:52 PM..
I guess if you constitute THAT a meltdown, well hell...
And NO, I don't see Kukoc making it--- BUT, then again I could be wrong. I'm honestly surprised his name is even up for consideration. What, was he his days' Manu Ginobili, more or less? I don't remember him being THIS good when he was playing, at least Ginobili was contending for a Finals MVP
I'm not even arguing that Kukoc was ever some NBA elite etc. I'm merely pointing out that they will make the HOF based upon past history.
Kukoc played more of his years in europe than Ginobli did and he really was the guy that broke the barrier and was then followed by the likes of Sabonis, Ginobli, Parker, Dirk and a host of others.
IMO Ginobli was clearly the better NBA player as Kukocs game was better suited for international play plus he played most of his years during the vastly more physical low-scoring era. The rules and refing changes that turned Steve Nash into a star when he'd have been pushed around in the 90's....definitely gave Ginobli a boost and would have helped Kukoc massively.
So, if you flip eras you'd IMO probably see Kukoc perform significantly better and Ginobli somewhat worse.
I think if Kukoc played his whole career in the NBA and didn't have all the national team medals from olympics etc. that he would not make the HOF. I think that's our disconnect in the conversation....I'm strictly talking about how the HOF looks at these things....that's why I suggested that we could even have a side conversation about the criteria. I think if Kukoc joined the league today as a 20yo that he'd have a shot at a HOF NBA career in this era.
Kukoc at 6'11 with his handles, passing, shooting touch, and today's rules? He'd have been better in this era.
Yeah, by a mile.
Imagine Pau Gasol trying to play back in the days of "no blood no foul" play in the paint against the likes of Oakley, Rodman, Malone? He'd be vastly less effective in the "MMA era" of the NBA.
The taller guys that would perimeter guard Kukoc would always just fall back on the good old handcheck to keep him from driving the rim. Imagine how much easier it would be to guard Dirk or Durant etc. on the perimeter if you can just play him tight and handcheck him?
I agree Kukoc could have been better in this era. But I think he could have been great in his era too, if he came in 88 at age 20 or at least at age 22 when he was drafted. AND had more of the teams overall load(as a star) and more minutes. In the lockout 99 season his stats were 18, 7, 5. In the first half of 1999-2000 as part of the Bulls he was 18,5,5. This is at age 32. Imagine being the star at age 23-24. I'm sure he would easily average 20,6,6(maybe more? 23ppg?) for at least 5 years.
He was a great facilitator/playmaker and a great team mate.
EDIT: If you look at his stats, whenever his minutes go up to starter level minutes, 35-36mpg, his numbers are great.
I agree Kukoc could have been better in this era. But I think he could have been great in his era too, if he came in 88 at age 20 or at least at age 22 when he was drafted. AND had more of the teams overall load(as a star) and more minutes. In the lockout 99 season his stats were 18, 7, 5. In the first half of 1999-2000 as part of the Bulls he was 18,5,5. This is at age 32. Imagine being the star at age 23-24. I'm sure he would easily average 20,6,6(maybe more? 23ppg?) for at least 5 years.
He was a great facilitator/playmaker and a great team mate.
EDIT: If you look at his stats, whenever his minutes go up to starter level minutes, 35-36mpg, his numbers are great.
I've made this argument before. If he was more of a focal point as opposed to a third option behind Jordan and Pippen, I could see him as a 22,7,7 guy in his era.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I guess if Indianapolis makes some noise here in the next few years, Scola will make the Hall. Anthony Parker will even get some consideration. Hell, if Danilo Gallinari can stay healthy and land on a contender, he'll make the Hall too I guess. 
