Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Interesting that everyone is putting Lebron above Bird now. Are we also saying that on the GOAT list, Lebron is higher up or are we simply saying that he's passed Bird as a player?
Interesting that everyone is putting Lebron above Bird now. Are we also saying that on the GOAT list, Lebron is higher up or are we simply saying that he's passed Bird as a player?
To me they're the same thing. If you've passed someone as a player then you've passed them on the GOAT list too. Unless you're just comparing their peaks or something.
To me they're the same thing. If you've passed someone as a player then you've passed them on the GOAT list too. Unless you're just comparing their peaks or something.
I'm referring to, as far as GOAT list go, considering career accolades in the equation. So my question earlier is basically saying, has Lebron's career to this point been better than Bird's, realizing that these kinds of lists are incredibly subjective of course. Lebron is still writing his legacy, already has 4 mvps and 2 titles( and clearly in position to add to those totals), so its quite possible that his career is on par already.
As players at their best, as far as ability and what they can do on the court, that's another topic.
I would argue that it is impossible to make a reasonable comparison between Bird and Lebron. They played in different eras, had different styles, even different mentalities. Seems to me that Bird was more of a natural on-court competitor, while Lebron James is one who wins by outworking everyone else in the off-season.
I'm referring to, as far as GOAT list go, considering career accolades in the equation. So my question earlier is basically saying, has Lebron's career to this point been better than Bird's, realizing that these kinds of lists are incredibly subjective of course. Lebron is still writing his legacy, already has 4 mvps and 2 titles( and clearly in position to add to those totals), so its quite possible that his career is on par already.
As players at their best, as far as ability and what they can do on the court, that's another topic.
To me the criteria are the same.
I usually don't factor in championships very much because that is a team accolade with a large luck component. I don't pay attention to MVP awards because that award is a joke IMO, people can't even agree on what the criteria are and the best player often doesn't get the award. So I basically just go by what I see on the court with some weight given to team success relative to who they had around them.
Bird played on some stacked teams. The 86 team had Danny Ainge, Dennis Johnson, Larry Bird, Kevin McHale (backup PF for the East on the all-star team) and Robert Parish (backup center for the East on the all-star team). An equivalent team for Lebron today would probably be something like...
PG George Hill
SG O.J. Mayo
SF Lebron James
PF LaMarcus Aldridge
C Joakim Noah
So it's not a very fair comparison, if Lebron had teams as stacked as Bird he would probably have a lot more than 3 rings.
I would argue that it is impossible to make a reasonable comparison between Bird and Lebron. They played in different eras, had different styles, even different mentalities. Seems to me that Bird was more of a natural on-court competitor, while Lebron James is one who wins by outworking everyone else in the off-season.
I agree. Bird had a killer instinct and competitiveness that Lebron had to learn from Pat Riley. Lebron has had very good players around him, but Bird had the better teams.
I usually don't factor in championships very much because that is a team accolade with a large luck component. I don't pay attention to MVP awards because that award is a joke IMO, people can't even agree on what the criteria are and the best player often doesn't get the award. So I basically just go by what I see on the court with some weight given to team success relative to who they had around them.
Bird played on some stacked teams. The 86 team had Danny Ainge, Dennis Johnson, Larry Bird, Kevin McHale (backup PF for the East on the all-star team) and Robert Parish (backup center for the East on the all-star team). An equivalent team for Lebron today would probably be something like...
PG George Hill
SG O.J. Mayo
SF Lebron James
PF LaMarcus Aldridge
C Joakim Noah
So it's not a very fair comparison, if Lebron had teams as stacked as Bird he would probably have a lot more than 3 rings.
Fair enough, and thinking about it when I posted the earlier comment both Bird and Magic played with HOF caliber talent their entire careers. We never saw either playing on a 'bad' team and both benefitted from that during their primes. We've seen several players 'waste' prime years on mediocre teams and they may be unfairly judged for not having won titles when we assess their careers. I would say, compared to other major sports, we tend to really sell great players short because they failed to win a title. Noone I know gives Dan Marino or Barry Bonds grief for not winning a superbowl or world series.
So based on who's the actual 'better player' oncourt, what's your criteria for picking Lebron? I just find it interesting because its been so easy to reply 'Larry Bird' for years without much thought, that I was surprised pretty much everyone here picked Lebron.
Why be surprised most of the people on here probably never saw him play...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
