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People seem to forget that it's the basketball HOF, not the NBA HOF. IDK how you can't have Manu in there when you add his international exploits, which included Olympic gold medals.
Saw the 1984 Draft Show on NBA TV - Oscar Schmidt is in the Hall of Fame and I don't think he played a game in the NBA. He played until he was 45, and scored over 49,000 - 10,000+ more than Kareem.
Duncan is nowhere near the top 10 all time NBA players.
Saw the 1984 Draft Show on NBA TV - Oscar Schmidt is in the Hall of Fame and I don't think he played a game in the NBA. He played until he was 45, and scored over 49,000 - 10,000+ more than Kareem.
Duncan is nowhere near the top 10 all time NBA players.
When people talk of Duncan they always reference he is the bet power forward to play the game. I haven't heard anyone say he is the best player to have played the game...
What is your problem man. Really its freaking fans. Should we watch the game in SA that the Mavs were killing the Spurs. Place was full until 5-6mins left. I was there. Left with 30seconds left. I don't understand don't you have something better to do than insult fans. Criticize the players, the coaches, but the fans. I just don't get it. It is just odd. Place was full, and still loud trying to give the team a boost until it was clearly over. Get over the hate for the Heat fan. Fans leave when their team gets killed in every freaking sport ever invented in the world. The fans showed up once again tonight, the players did not.
Really if all you are going to do is discuss the fans, come on man.
Anyway, Spurs are the better team, I thought that coming into the series and it is very very clear now. I am shocked by the way the Heat played the last two games. Spurs really gave it to them, and the Heat just never responded much. Down 3-1, no team in the Finals has ever come back from that before, there is a first time for everything but I won't get my hopes up no matter what happens Sunday. I got to start de-focusing on the Heat as I got a bar exam to put all my effort into now.
Enjoyed most of the discussions here. Unless there is some miracle game 7, will be back on here next year. As much as those past two games have sucked, the past four years have been awesome, and more many NBA teams fans can ask for in a lifetime.
Game was over. Lets see, Thursday night, game is over. And those were just those lower seats. Place was full until about the 5min mark. This would happen in any arena in the country.
Hate on the players. But give up being so low and pathetic that people need to call out fans.
They play the game it should be played IMO. Look at OKC there never going to win because they do not run plays or pass the ball around. RW and KD all they do is go one one one and shot the ball . Do not get me wrong good players but you cant win that way.
I've never understood why people hate the spurs either. They are arguably the best team with class.
And totally agreed with OKC their style of play is only playoff bound. Like Doc said OKC has a way of hitting tough shots but those shots can also be the death of your team.
Why would the Spurs take their foot off the gas in their home arena with a chance to win a title, especially considering what happened last year? The Heat will have to earn game 5; no way this Spurs team lets up.
I'm not saying it will happen, but it's human nature. The Heat are going to come out swinging in this one - of that I can be reasonably sure. I think it'll probably be more like game two, which went down to the wire. I don't think the Spurs would let their foot up in the first three quarters; it would be the final five minutes I'd be more concerned about. But if they can crush the Heat in the 3rd Q maybe it's moot - maybe the Heat toss in the towel and accept that they've had their run and go into the off-season of free agency.
I'm not saying it will happen, but it's human nature. The Heat are going to come out swinging in this one - of that I can be reasonably sure. I think it'll probably be more like game two, which went down to the wire. I don't think the Spurs would let their foot up in the first three quarters; it would be the final five minutes I'd be more concerned about. But if they can crush the Heat in the 3rd Q maybe it's moot - maybe the Heat toss in the towel and accept that they've had their run and go into the off-season of free agency.
If the Heat win in the last five minutes, it will have to be because they earned it, not because the Spurs let their foot of the gas.
Bill Simmons I think it was, drew a parallel between this finals and the 2004 finals when the Pistons smacked the Lakers around. I can see game 5 playing out like that game 5. Spurs at home, rolling, with a chance to close out the Heat. I just can not fathom why anyone would think the Spurs would mail it in. This is Tim Duncan, Popovich, Parker........I mean these are not upstart guys. They know what it takes.
Yeah, major butthurt. I don't bother responding to his posts anymore - that's a waste of keystrokes on my part.
I will say this - Duncan is definitely on the list of all time greats, at least for this generation. I'm 38, but unless you're a basketball purist, who truly remembers Robertson, Russell and all of those other guys? I'm from the Bird/Thomas/latter day Kareem and Magic/Jordan generation. Duncan is a special player and I'm not even going to go into why with some of the folks here..it's not worth it. I will say this -- it's funny how he is labeled a "role player" because he happens to be a superstar who conformed to a team-oriented system instead of trying to pad his own stats. Just because the Spurs eschew the term "superstar" doesn't mean that there are truly no stars or superstars on the team. What they care about is winning. That's their only goal. It's that simple. Everyone is a role player.
If we're gonna go by such things as stats, Tim Duncan has the cred in terms of hardware, All-Star appearances, finals appearances, etc. At 38, if he retires, he's retiring on top, as an integral part of the Spurs offense, not buried at the end of the bench like many big guys at the tail end of their careers. In addition, Tim Duncan in his mid 30s, went as far as to change his game (from being mere a back to basket big) and conditioning so that he has a greater shelf life.
As for Ginobili, is a HOF material? Yeah, I think he is. He has opened the door for many international players. When he first started in the NBA, there weren't many foreign players at all, let alone ones who won championships. His style of play is unorthodox but effective and he was very crucial to his team. He deserves a place based on being the ultimate sixth man and him paving the way for his fellow international brethren.
There are so many different aspects of the game to talk about it's hard to know where to start, but I'll start with the Roman legion style discipline with which the Spurs play. It's a sight to behold if you're an NBA, or even just a casual sports fan.
The Spurs have that rare thing that great teams seem to have: a sense for when the game is theirs for the taking. They came out, established the pace with aggressive play at both ends, and never let the Heat get up off the canvas. It reminded me of one of those UFC fights in which Georges St Pierre just takes his opponent to the mat and just keeps him there and brutalizes him. The ending's anti-climactic.
I would not write the Heat off for one more game, but I would have to agree that the Spurs appear to be the superior team. They probably were better last year, but they're going to make sure that they get it done this year.
The Spurs just bring too much for the Heat. Too much passing. Too much floor spacing. On the perimeter or inside, they always seem to find the mismatch. It's amazing to watch the mind of Popovich go to work in how he utilizes his bench players. The Heat must feel like they're playing a bunch of Piranhas when they step on the floor against the Spurs, cause they're getting eaten alive not by one player but by practically everyone who wears the Silver and Black.
Yeah. To be honest I don't think the Heat have an answer. If they did, they would have performed better in Game 4. Even Spo was flat out amazed - amazed at how his team responded and amazed that this Spurs team isn't the same one from last year. I think finally more people are beginning to realize that a team playing with a vengeance is very dangerous indeed. I saw a "destroy them" mentality last night and it was amazing to behold. The Heat players couldn't keep up, always seemed a tad show. Kawhi Leonard coming out of nowhere to slam back in an errant shot was classic.
With the exception of injuries, I'm of the belief that better career = better player. So with that being said:
Bryant
Pettit
Cousy
Havlicek
West Bird
Alcindor
Earvin
Jordan
Chamberlain
Russell O'Neal
I wanted to say Robertson as well, but reluctantly I thought the better of it
What do you consider a better career? Do you mean championships? Too, many that's a very narrow and limited of evaluating a player overall. There have been plenty of great players who only one won championship, and some who have not won any.
Let's consider 3 players: Robert Horry, Charles Barkley, and Karl Malone. Horry has won 7 championships, while Barkley and Malone have won none. Does that mean Horry is better than Barkley and Malone? Almost everyone who knows much about basketball would argue Barkley and Malone are far superior.
I'll admit I'm not that familiar with everyone on your list, but let's talk about the 3 highlighted during their prime:
1) Bryant - One of the greatest scorers ever and competitors ever, and also a great defender. But no nearly as much of a complete player as Duncan. While Bryant was superior at one facet of the game (scoring), Duncan was very good to great at every facet of the game: scoring, rebounding, defense, passing... he did it all. That said, Bryant is a better clutch scorer, so I think they're about even.
2) Bird - Great skills and a terrific mind for the game. While he's certainly a better shooter, and a great competitor, Duncan was a much better rebounder. Defensively they're about even, with maybe a slight edge to Duncan because he's a better shot blocker. I think they're both equally great in different ways.
3) O'Neal - Seriously? You think an ogre with mediocre skills is better than Duncan? In his prime O'Neal was certainly one of the most -arguably the most- dominant players ever. That said, it was size and strengthalone that enabled such dominance. Even during his prime O'Neal's fundamental skills were average. This was evident because as he aged and his athleticism diminished he was no longer an effective player. His last 2-3 seasons are a complete joke. Bigger and stronger doesn't not equal better to me. In terms of fundamental skills, Duncan was superior in every possible way.
I think a decent argument can be made for Bryant and Bird; again, I think they're about even with Duncan. But Duncan is clearly better than O'Neal, and so is Oscar Robinson. Aside from his size and strength, O'Neal was thoroughly mediocre.
I think it's laughable some people are being so dismissive of Tim Duncan and just how good he has been during his career. Name another NBA player that has been as consistent as Duncan in the last 13 or 14 years in both the regular season and the playoffs. You probably could count on 1 or 2 fingers.
With the way San Antonio has played games 3 and 4, there's little reason to not think they close things out at home.
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In his prime O'Neal was certainly one of the most -arguably the most- dominant players ever. That said, it was size and strength alone that enabled such dominance. Even during his prime O'Neal's fundamental skills were average. This was evident because as he aged and his athleticism diminished he was no longer an effective player. His last 2-3 seasons are a complete joke. Bigger and stronger doesn't not equal better to me. In terms of fundamental skills, Duncan was superior in every possible way.
