Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If i were the Cavs brass, i WOULD-NOT give up Andrew Wiggins in any deal for Kevin Love.
The Cavs have something to build on, and maybe have a run like the Spurs did for the last 15-17 years.
It takes much more than getting luck in the draft lottery to build a franchise. Although I agree that they should not give up Wiggins, let's please not even think about comparing them to the Spurs. That's not happening. We are talking about one franchise that turned one top 5 pick into almost two decades consistent championship caliber basketball versus another franchise that has had 5 top 5 picks in 4 years that hasn't even made the playoffs in that time. They are no where near each other and never will be.
If i were the Cavs brass, i WOULD-NOT give up Andrew Wiggins in any deal for Kevin Love.
The Cavs have something to build on, and maybe have a run like the Spurs did for the last 15-17 years.
To do that Cleveland is going to have to be able to add talent through free-agency and PLAYER DEVELOPMENT of non-blue chip lottery picks. Ginobli...Parker...Kwahi....etc.
Their track record historically is that they can't do either of those.
So far their entire team is built around sucking and getting lucky with lottery balls and then some Lebron home cooking. Neither of those is skilled management.
I'm going to be suspicious of the Cavs future until I start seeing things that make me forget their horrid player moves during lebrons first stint there.
The Miami Heat just made 4 consecutive trips to the finals, 2 championships, and the longest win streak in modern NBA history, 2nd in all pro basketball history. How the hell do you say that's a failure??
Pretty sure I bolded it. Here let me refresh your memory:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliDude1
If anything the Miami Heat just showed that having all your talent concentrated in two or three players is not enough.
Yep there it is.
It's more than enough - they were EC champs for every year they were together. Miami is not the only top heavy team to dominate - the early 2000s Lakers did the same thing. You can absolutely use the Miami or LA model and enjoy great success.
To do that Cleveland is going to have to be able to add talent through free-agency and PLAYER DEVELOPMENT of non-blue chip lottery picks. Ginobli...Parker...Kwahi....etc.
Their track record historically is that they can't do either of those.
So far their entire team is built around sucking and getting lucky with lottery balls and then some Lebron home cooking. Neither of those is skilled management.
I'm going to be suspicious of the Cavs future until I start seeing things that make me forget their horrid player moves during lebrons first stint there.
Too extreme here...Deep pockets got them back and yes luck got them back. THey are proposing a change to the lottery system because I think league officials see a flaw- you either go all in or all out to build your franchise- they Cavs committed to all out and it got them back- it was painful but I'd say something worked. Your Bulls have deep pockets but have been unlucky with free agents and injuries, whose to say the next 5-10 years it doesn't swing their way. I find it quite funny how the attitude not just here but with other NBA fans is "how is this all happening to Cleveland?" Like Cleveland can't have any good fortune.
They converted the Clipper pick took on 29M into Kyrie Irving. Lucky yeah, but there weren't many organizations at the time willing or able to do that. The Cavs after the Decision had a choice (mind you they lost the best basketball player on that planet) they could become the Jazz or Hawks and hover around the 35-40 win total and be low lottery or 1st round fodder or they could acquire assets and tear up the roster. Cleveland is used to the pain of rebuild mode.
From 06-10 they were picking at the end of the 1st round- comparing the Cavs or anyone else to the Spurs is foolish (by the way Kwahi was a lottery pick) the conversion rate on those picks is low.
Lesson here luck was present but Danny Boy took on some bad contracts to get picks and the organization decides "hey we are going to stink for 2,3,4 years- but we are turning it around with lottery picks and maybe just maybe lebron comes back" Here we are!
Last edited by eastcoastbias; 07-22-2014 at 07:57 AM..
It's more than enough - they were EC champs for every year they were together. Miami is not the only top heavy team to dominate - the early 2000s Lakers did the same thing. You can absolutely use the Miami or LA model and enjoy great success.
I think the current CBA has killed that model. Three max players cost about $60 million of a salary cap that's less than $70 million. You are left with less than $10 million to fill out your roster. Yes, there is talk about the salary cap shooting up in the next few years. I'll believe it when I see it.
The current CBA has put limitations into place that weren't in play during the last CBA. Both the Lakers and Heat were put together under the last CBA. Tax paying teams have stiff financial penalties and more limitations on team building (for example tax paying teams can't receive players in a sign and trade deal).
Too extreme here...Deep pockets got them back and yes luck got them back. THey are proposing a change to the lottery system because I think league officials see a flaw- you either go all in or all out to build your franchise- they Cavs committed to all out and it got them back- it was painful but I'd say something worked. Your Bulls have deep pockets but have been unlucky with free agents and injuries, whose to say the next 5-10 years it doesn't swing their way. I find it quite funny how the attitude not just here but with other NBA fans is "how is this all happening to Cleveland?" Like Cleveland can't have any good fortune.
They converted the Clipper pick took on 29M into Kyrie Irving. Lucky yeah, but there weren't many organizations at the time willing or able to do that. The Cavs after the Decision had a choice (mind you they lost the best basketball player on that planet) they could become the Jazz or Hawks and hover around the 35-40 win total and be low lottery or 1st round fodder or they could acquire assets and tear up the roster. Cleveland is used to the pain of rebuild mode.
From 06-10 they were picking at the end of the 1st round- comparing the Cavs or anyone else to the Spurs is foolish (by the way Kwahi was a lottery pick) the conversion rate on those picks is low.
Lesson here luck was present but Danny Boy took on some bad contracts to get picks and the organization decides "hey we are going to stink for 2,3,4 years- but we are turning it around with lottery picks and maybe just maybe lebron comes back" Here we are!
Ok, that's a good point. They did use their available cap space to get some picks by facilitating.
Only point I would quibble about is that it didn't take deep pockets to pull this off, most NBA teams with sharing can break even or better....it's not MLB after all.
I 100% don't disagree with the tanking but they got fairly lucky with the lottery ball.
I've credited them for taking the right rebuild choice but will not credit them with being able to complete the build until I see it. Maybe they learned the first time around.
P.S. What did they do with the GM that crafted that rebuild? Oh yeah...they fired him because they started out losing a lot of games in 2014. That's kinda the glaring hole in their argument now isn't it? Either they were trying to win games, failing...and getting draft picks....or Danny Boy just randomly decided to fire the GM after intentionally trying to tank? Please respond to this glaring inconsistency.
Ok, that's a good point. They did use their available cap space to get some picks by facilitating.
Only point I would quibble about is that it didn't take deep pockets to pull this off, most NBA teams with sharing can break even or better....it's not MLB after all.
I 100% don't disagree with the tanking but they got fairly lucky with the lottery ball.
I've credited them for taking the right rebuild choice but will not credit them with being able to complete the build until I see it. Maybe they learned the first time around.
P.S. What did they do with the GM that crafted that rebuild? Oh yeah...they fired him because they started out losing a lot of games in 2014. That's kinda the glaring hole in their argument now isn't it? Either they were trying to win games, failing...and getting draft picks....or Danny Boy just randomly decided to fire the GM after intentionally trying to tank? Please respond to this glaring inconsistency.
I think the former Cavs GM was fired under the grounds of the Anthony Bennet pick.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Please respond to this glaring inconsistency.
