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Old 07-07-2014, 09:13 AM
 
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So most people say, you need a superstar with a PER above 30 to be a contender, but my Nuggets disagree. They think they can get it done by committee, and are likely to make VERY little roster changes before the season begins.

PER reference guide:
Quote:
Reference guide
Hollinger has set up PER so that the league average, every season, is 15.00, which produces sort of a handy reference guide:
A Year For the Ages: 35.0
Runaway MVP Candidate: 30.0
Strong MVP Candidate: 27.5
Weak MVP Candidate: 25.0
Bona fide All-Star: 22.5
Borderline All-Star: 20.0
Solid 2nd option: 18.0
3rd Banana: 16.5
Pretty good player: 15.0
In the rotation: 13.0
Scrounging for minutes: 11.0
Definitely renting: 9.0
The Next Stop: DLeague 5.0
Denver has a couple of players that are floating around the "borderline All-star" mark for their last "full" season:

Ty Lawson: 19.02
Arron Afflalo: 16.09
Danilo Gallinari: 16.73
Kenneth Faried: 19.90
Timofey Mozgov: 16.77

(Danilo didn't play last year, and Timofey Mozgov improved heavily in the last part of the season, but they don't do PER ratings for the last half of a season.)

Kenneth Faried has promised that he is going to become a superstar, and as far as PF's who are not currently considered to be superstars, I think he is one of the ones poised to actually achieve superstar status.

I think Ty can improve to at least "bonafide All-star" level, maybe "Weak MVP Candidate", and Danilo to "Borderline All-star".

Now, assuming that Faried does not play like a "superstar" this season, do you think that the Nuggets can make it deep into the playoffs?

Their second team is:

PG: Nate Robinson/ Randy Foye
SG: Gary Harris/ Randy Foye
SF: Wilson Chandler/ Quincy Miller
PF: J.J. Hickson/ Darrell Arthur
C: Javale Mcgee/ J.J. Hickson

(A few versatile players that can do multiple positions.)


A lot of people are saying the Nuggets are "Three deep at every position"... And Brian Shaw thinks he can win a championship with a team like this, Arron Afflalo has publicly agreed.

Brian Shaw believes no additional Nuggets roster moves are necessary


Do you think a deep playoff run/championship is possible with a team by committee? Are there any teams based on this strategy that has a better chance than Denver at pulling it off?
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Old 07-07-2014, 09:37 AM
 
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the pistons did it once. all 4 of them were all stars.
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Old 07-07-2014, 09:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by civic94 View Post
the pistons did it once. all 4 of them were all stars.
Good point. They also beat a team with two superstars on the roster.
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Old 07-07-2014, 09:50 AM
 
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What about this year's Spurs?
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Old 07-07-2014, 09:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Roman77 View Post
What about this year's Spurs?
Tim Duncan is a superstar, and you could also consider Tony Parker a superstar.

TONY PARKER MIGHT BE THE MOST OVERLOOKED SUPERSTAR OF THIS ERA

BUT, they did win by playing good team basketball. Tim Duncan managed to cut down his minutes without cutting down on his contribution. They also beat a team that was more superstar-reliant.
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Old 07-07-2014, 10:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xander_Crews View Post
Tim Duncan is a superstar, and you could also consider Tony Parker a superstar.

TONY PARKER MIGHT BE THE MOST OVERLOOKED SUPERSTAR OF THIS ERA

BUT, they did win by playing good team basketball. Tim Duncan managed to cut down his minutes without cutting down on his contribution. They also beat a team that was more superstar-reliant.
I think Parker is pushing it. He's a heck of a player but the Spurs don't seem to miss too much of a beat when he doesn't play. I think the Spurs have a system in place that maximizes everyone. I'd call him a 'star', but to me a superstar is someone like Lebron or Durant.

I'm not sure if you'd consider Duncan one * at this stage*, perhaps superstar intangibles but it's definitely more of a collaborative effort this year than,say, 2003 when Duncan was putting up godly numbers and leading a team of role players. I suppose we need to define what we mean by 'superstar' for the purposes of the discussion.
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Old 07-07-2014, 10:13 AM
 
4,399 posts, read 9,059,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xander_Crews View Post
So most people say, you need a superstar with a PER above 30 to be a contender, but my Nuggets disagree. They think they can get it done by committee, and are likely to make VERY little roster changes before the season begins.

PER reference guide:


Denver has a couple of players that are floating around the "borderline All-star" mark for their last "full" season:

Ty Lawson: 19.02
Arron Afflalo: 16.09
Danilo Gallinari: 16.73
Kenneth Faried: 19.90
Timofey Mozgov: 16.77

(Danilo didn't play last year, and Timofey Mozgov improved heavily in the last part of the season, but they don't do PER ratings for the last half of a season.)

Kenneth Faried has promised that he is going to become a superstar, and as far as PF's who are not currently considered to be superstars, I think he is one of the ones poised to actually achieve superstar status.

I think Ty can improve to at least "bonafide All-star" level, maybe "Weak MVP Candidate", and Danilo to "Borderline All-star".

Now, assuming that Faried does not play like a "superstar" this season, do you think that the Nuggets can make it deep into the playoffs?

Their second team is:

PG: Nate Robinson/ Randy Foye
SG: Gary Harris/ Randy Foye
SF: Wilson Chandler/ Quincy Miller
PF: J.J. Hickson/ Darrell Arthur
C: Javale Mcgee/ J.J. Hickson

(A few versatile players that can do multiple positions.)


A lot of people are saying the Nuggets are "Three deep at every position"... And Brian Shaw thinks he can win a championship with a team like this, Arron Afflalo has publicly agreed.

Brian Shaw believes no additional Nuggets roster moves are necessary


Do you think a deep playoff run/championship is possible with a team by committee? Are there any teams based on this strategy that has a better chance than Denver at pulling it off?
Your title says do you need a superstar to win a championship. And you bring up the nuggets as an example that you don't, yet they haven't won a championship recently. So the nuggets example does not support your hypothesis. If your hypothesis was you don't need a star to miss the playoffs, you would be correct.
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Old 07-07-2014, 10:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2008 View Post
Your title says do you need a superstar to win a championship. And you bring up the nuggets as an example that you don't, yet they haven't won a championship recently. So the nuggets example does not support your hypothesis. If your hypothesis was you don't need a star to miss the playoffs, you would be correct.
I DID NOT "use the Nuggets as an example that you don't need a superstar." I said that it is their plan for next season... and asked for opinions on whether or not it can be done.

Do you think it can be done? If so, what team do you think is most poised to do it? I was simply mentioning the Nuggets as a team that is going to TRY to do it this season.

You can't use the Nuggets' last season against them in this conversation, half the players were injured all season.

Last edited by Xander_Crews; 07-07-2014 at 10:29 AM..
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Old 07-07-2014, 10:29 AM
 
3,147 posts, read 2,941,809 times
Reputation: 1858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman77 View Post
I think Parker is pushing it. He's a heck of a player but the Spurs don't seem to miss too much of a beat when he doesn't play. I think the Spurs have a system in place that maximizes everyone. I'd call him a 'star', but to me a superstar is someone like Lebron or Durant.

I'm not sure if you'd consider Duncan one * at this stage*, perhaps superstar intangibles but it's definitely more of a collaborative effort this year than,say, 2003 when Duncan was putting up godly numbers and leading a team of role players. I suppose we need to define what we mean by 'superstar' for the purposes of the discussion.
I think it is hard to define "superstar".

I would say that they are players who have proven they can carry a team consistently if needed. Which both Duncan and Parker are capable of. Maybe we consider superstars to be players who are in the top 5 of their position? Would that be fair?

This yeah especially, the Spurs played team basketball despite having stars. They didn't lean on them, which was beautiful.

San Antonio Spurs Exemplify the Beauty of Team Basketball

Based on PER, Duncan was 7th at power forward this year, but in the last 3 years before this one, he has been rated 5,4, and 1. A lot of people put him in the conversation of best PF of all time. He didn't achieve as much this year BECAUSE they played team basketball, they didn't play team basketball because Duncan isn't still incredible.

Except for last year, Tony Parker has consistently been in the top 5 for PG's over the years, in fact, many years he has been in the top 3. Again, this last season his numbers suffered a little bit because the Spurs plan was to play team basketball, not rely on stars.
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Old 07-07-2014, 11:29 AM
 
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The number I think dooms the nuggets is 106.5

Only the Lakers and Philly gave up more ppg than Denver.

Balanced teams w\o a superstar that don't play good defense? Nuggets aren't going anywhere unless they correct that.

Last years injuries may have had something to do with that but the year before they were tied for 21st worst in opponents ppg and 11th in opponents FG%.

You don't go far in the playoffs with numbers like those.

Spurs were 6th and 8th in ppg and fg%.
Miami was like 5th and 14th but they had injuries and coasted in the regular season.
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