Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Kobe was awful in game 7 vs. Boston and got bailed out by Artest, but people still remember him as the great MVP of the series. Anyway, without the 3 Lebron hit, they're down 7-8 with even less time left, and Lebron would be 1-3 in the finals at that time instead of 2-2.
I agree, it takes a team to win a title for sure. Mostly Im saying that, as someone else pointed out....you ask any player entering the league if they could end up 2-4 in title matches they take it. A very good career at that, but NOT for someone in the discussion for best player ever. Kobe has 5 titles to go along with that game 7 vs Boston. Lebron has had some horrible finals games and series (vs Mavs) plus being 2-4. He is not in the discussion for greatest ever. Now if he wins this year I'd be happy for Cleveland and it would help his legacy tremendously....
You can say what you want. Lebron had crap teams compared to Kobe and MJ. Between the Shaq and Gasol eras, Kobe couldn't even get out of the first round usually. Lebron would have won more than 3 titles if he had been there with Shaq instead of Kobe. Lakers fans secretly never wanted to see Cavs vs. Lakers in the finals back in the day. Was Lebron better than MJ? I'm not making that claim (but I think I would say he's better than Kobe was). Even if you factor in the great teammates in Miami, his entire team bailed on him in the rematch vs. the Spurs when Miami got killed, which was really pretty sad.
I'm not sure who votes on MVP or how, but I don't see why Lebron isn't the MVP. Cleveland would struggle to get a 7-8 seed without Lebron. GS would probably get a 5ish seed without Curry and maybe win a playoff series.
Edit: Actually forget "usually." Kobe got to the playoffs twice without Shaq and Gasol, and never got out of the first round once. Before James went to Miami, he got to the finals once, conference finals once, and the 2nd round three times.
You can say what you want. Lebron had crap teams compared to Kobe and MJ. Between the Shaq and Gasol eras, Kobe couldn't even get out of the first round usually. Lebron would have won more than 3 titles if he had been there with Shaq instead of Kobe. Lakers fans secretly never wanted to see Cavs vs. Lakers in the finals back in the day. Was Lebron better than MJ? I'm not making that claim (but I think I would say he's better than Kobe was). Even if you factor in the great teammates in Miami, his entire team bailed on him in the rematch vs. the Spurs when Miami got killed, which was really pretty sad.
I'm not sure who votes on MVP or how, but I don't see why Lebron isn't the MVP. Cleveland would struggle to get a 7-8 seed without Lebron. GS would probably get a 5ish seed without Curry and maybe win a playoff series.
Edit: Actually forget "usually." Kobe got to the playoffs twice without Shaq and Gasol, and never got out of the first round once. Before James went to Miami, he got to the finals once, conference finals once, and the 2nd round three times.
Lebron played with Shaq and didn't win. He wouldn't have won with the lakers either because Lebron is not the alpha clutch player Kobe was, and Lebron went to Wade to get one of those on his side.
Lol, don't pretend 2010 Shaq playing 20 mins/game is anywhere near 2001 Shaq. Lebron was clutch. He hit that 3 against San Antonio to keep the game close enough for Allen, then he dominated game 7. I'm sure Lebron would have won 4+ in LA with Shaq.
Lol, don't pretend 2010 Shaq playing 20 mins/game is anywhere near 2001 Shaq. Lebron was clutch. He hit that 3 against San Antonio to keep the game close enough for Allen, then he dominated game 7. I'm sure Lebron would have won 4+ in LA with Shaq.
Lebron played with Shaq and didn't win. He wouldn't have won with the lakers either because Lebron is not the alpha clutch player Kobe was, and Lebron went to Wade to get one of those on his side.
I question if you saw any of those early Lakers' teams. Peak Shaq was arguably a better player than peak LeBron. Shaq was an utter unstoppable monster for a few years.
To equate prime Shaq with the Cavs Shaq is pure idiocy. It's like comparing this year's Kobe to prime Kobe, or comparing Lakers' Steve Nash to peak Suns' Steve Nash.
To equate prime Shaq with the Cavs Shaq is pure idiocy. It's like comparing this year's Kobe to prime Kobe, or comparing Lakers' Steve Nash to peak Suns' Steve Nash.
The LeBron hate has never been particularly rational.
I question if you saw any of those early Lakers' teams. Peak Shaq was arguably a better player than peak LeBron. Shaq was an utter unstoppable monster for a few years.
To equate prime Shaq with the Cavs Shaq is pure idiocy. It's like comparing this year's Kobe to prime Kobe, or comparing Lakers' Steve Nash to peak Suns' Steve Nash.
I never said it was equal Shaq, just that he played with Shaq. Theres no question Lebron has had some great teams and a psuedo all star team in Miami that eeeked out two titles. Luck for him.
I dont think Lebron would have won with peak Shaq, neither of them could be trusted at the end of a game.
you really just made that argument? Ok, you just lost.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
you really just made that argument? Ok, you just lost.
