Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It just seems different to me. Those Laker and Bulls teams that you've talked about all had series that went to 7 games (except 2001 Lakers). When is the last time Lebron had a 7 game series in the Eastern Conference playoffs?
Bulls were challenged by the Pacers and Knicks. Lakers were always challenged by the Spurs, Rockets, Kings.
The teams now are extremely stacked.
The fact that levron doesn't have any competition in the east has IMO more to do with bad teams (gm/owners etc) than with lebron having a stacked team.
There are better run teams in the west, that's all.
Perhaps you are confusing "stacked" via rebuilding with great draft picks/trades with "stacked" via colluding, ring chasing and front running.
For example -
Did the Bulls really know that Jordan, then Pippen, then Horace Grant would all end up being great players prior to drafting them? Sure, high hopes with 3rd, 5th and 10th draft picks but it rarely works out THAT well.
Did the Showtime Lakers KNOW that Michael Cooper (60th pick in draft) would be a lockdown defender? They knew Magic was good in college, but ~top 5 all time good? Drafting Worthy obviously worked out perfectly. Trading for rookie Byron Scott worked out perfectly.
The Spurs sorta lucked into DRob getting injured and picking up Duncan who no one thought would be THAT good. They also DRAFTED Tony Parker and Ginobili as LATE draft picks. They got lucky with Bowen just as the Lakers did with Cooper.
The Celtics didn't know that Bird would be THAT good. They drafted McHale, Maxwell and Ainge. Gerald Henderson was the 64th pick in '79.
The Lakers obviously went after Shaq but did they know Kobe would turn out to be KOBE? Did they know Fisher would be such a good draft pick? They got lucky.
This isn't the same as the way modern super teams are built.
Perhaps you are confusing "stacked" via rebuilding with great draft picks/trades with "stacked" via colluding, ring chasing and front running.
For example -
Did the Bulls really know that Jordan, then Pippen, then Horace Grant would all end up being great players prior to drafting them? Sure, high hopes with 3rd, 5th and 10th draft picks but it rarely works out THAT well.
Did the Showtime Lakers KNOW that Michael Cooper (60th pick in draft) would be a lockdown defender? They knew Magic was good in college, but ~top 5 all time good? Drafting Worthy obviously worked out perfectly. Trading for rookie Byron Scott worked out perfectly.
The Spurs sorta lucked into DRob getting injured and picking up Duncan who no one thought would be THAT good. They also DRAFTED Tony Parker and Ginobili as LATE draft picks. They got lucky with Bowen just as the Lakers did with Cooper.
The Celtics didn't know that Bird would be THAT good. They drafted McHale, Maxwell and Ainge. Gerald Henderson was the 64th pick in '79.
The Lakers obviously went after Shaq but did they know Kobe would turn out to be KOBE? Did they know Fisher would be such a good draft pick? They got lucky.
This isn't the same as the way modern super teams are built.
really? so outside of durant this year, what crazy free agent deals have the warriors made?
spurs you brought up but implied they were a "superteam" yet "built not bought"
except EVERYONE knew tim duncan would b as good as he was. everyone knew magic was going to be good, everyone knew worthy was going to be good, everyone knew bird would be good. lets not act like these guys were manu ginobili or bostons isaiah thomas. these guys were early picks (magic/worthy both #1, bird #6) they were expected to be great.
if anything it would have been more of a surprise to the world if they had ended up like sam bowie or greg oden, than hall of famers.
cleveland didnt sign a bunch of free agents like miami did. cleveland drafted fairly smart and made savy trades.
they built that team around bad years creating high draft picks. were they lucky lebron decided to come home, absolutely, but lets not pretend they went out and courted the best free agents on the market and had a "decision" like the heat.
Perhaps you are confusing "stacked" via rebuilding with great draft picks/trades with "stacked" via colluding, ring chasing and front running.
For example -
Did the Bulls really know that Jordan, then Pippen, then Horace Grant would all end up being great players prior to drafting them? Sure, high hopes with 3rd, 5th and 10th draft picks but it rarely works out THAT well.
Did the Showtime Lakers KNOW that Michael Cooper (60th pick in draft) would be a lockdown defender? They knew Magic was good in college, but ~top 5 all time good? Drafting Worthy obviously worked out perfectly. Trading for rookie Byron Scott worked out perfectly.
The Spurs sorta lucked into DRob getting injured and picking up Duncan who no one thought would be THAT good. They also DRAFTED Tony Parker and Ginobili as LATE draft picks. They got lucky with Bowen just as the Lakers did with Cooper.
The Celtics didn't know that Bird would be THAT good. They drafted McHale, Maxwell and Ainge. Gerald Henderson was the 64th pick in '79.
The Lakers obviously went after Shaq but did they know Kobe would turn out to be KOBE? Did they know Fisher would be such a good draft pick? They got lucky.
This isn't the same as the way modern super teams are built.
Very well said. This was the point I was trying to make.
really? so outside of durant this year, what crazy free agent deals have the warriors made?
spurs you brought up but implied they were a "superteam" yet "built not bought"
except EVERYONE knew tim duncan would b as good as he was. everyone knew magic was going to be good, everyone knew worthy was going to be good, everyone knew bird would be good. lets not act like these guys were manu ginobili or bostons isaiah thomas. these guys were early picks (magic/worthy both #1, bird #6) they were expected to be great.
if anything it would have been more of a surprise to the world if they had ended up like sam bowie or greg oden, than hall of famers.
cleveland didnt sign a bunch of free agents like miami did. cleveland drafted fairly smart and made savy trades.
they built that team around bad years creating high draft picks. were they lucky lebron decided to come home, absolutely, but lets not pretend they went out and courted the best free agents on the market and had a "decision" like the heat.
Luck didnt have anything to do with it. Him coming home was based on getting Love for Wiggins. If that trade doesn't happen then I doubt lebron would have came back to Cleveland.
Luck is them getting the number 1 pick for 2011, 2013 and 2014 seasons.
Luck didnt have anything to do with it. Him coming home was based on getting Love for Wiggins. If that trade doesn't happen then I doubt lebron would have came back to Cleveland.
Luck is them getting the number 1 pick for 2011, 2013 and 2014 seasons.
Lebron happened before Love. Lebron came aboard because Kyrie bought in and signed long term prior to Lebron coming aboard.
Might be the 4th time I've mentioned this (and I usually say this when folks make jabs at the Cavs (mainly Gilbert) and claim it was all luck.
First, There are contenders, middle of the road going nowhere teams and the rebuilds. The Cavs tore it all down smartly. There are franchises that should take a cue and do the same.
Second, 2011 Number 1 pick was had by a shrewd trade (unprotected) they made with the Clips. Almost every trade since then is mindful of the situation in which the Cavs caught the Clips in. And let's not forget Gilbert took on 29M for a first round pick and a chance. It could have been 8, 9, 4...it was by chance the number overall pick. Which essentially cost Cleveland 29M dollars. Cavs bought a chance at Kyrie OR Derrick Williams for 29M- fast forward to 2017 they ended up with BOTH.
Third, wasn't much luck in any pick aside from a few with the 2013 draft.
Lastly, Griffin has been masterful again, they've dealt with more than their share of injuries to KEY guys, brought in Korver, found Derrick Williams off the scrap heap- both guys are playing great ball. Just added Deron Williams and have a great shot at Andrew Bogut. All of this done- when the Cavs had little to no assets to deal BUT they have an owner willing to spend. Say what you want about him- but the guy signs checks.
Luck didnt have anything to do with it. Him coming home was based on getting Love for Wiggins. If that trade doesn't happen then I doubt lebron would have came back to Cleveland.
Luck is them getting the number 1 pick for 2011, 2013 and 2014 seasons.
lebron was already signed with the cavs before that trade happened.
and again, with the exception of a couple "role players" (jefferson) the cavs built that team. those picks set them up to build around.
irving, thompson, others being used for trade bait and such, they have built that team, not bought it.
every team works within the cap, every team makes trades and swings deals. its how sports works.
An example of a team built through luck and building is OKC when they had Durant, Harden and Westbrook. We only saw them play together in their primes for maybe 1 year if that. That team could've become a modern day Bulls (Jordan/Pippen/Grant) or Lakers (Kareem/Magic/Worthy) or Celtics (Bird/McHale/Parish) if all 3 stayed together into their late 20s. There are no teams competing that were mostly built from the ground up. Warriors added arguably the best player in the league to an already good team. Cavs have assembled a big 3 and signed a lot of good role players that see the big 3 as their best chance to win. The Spurs signed Aldridge/Gasol/Lee.
It makes me wonder if teams outside of the top 2-3 can compete. What good is building a team and drafting well if stacked teams are simply created by star players deciding they want to play together.
And in other words, the NBA's best player surveyed the eastern conference and saw that Cleveland with Kyrie and a #1 draft pick gave him the best chance of winning for the next 4-5 years. Obviously Lebron knew the pick could be traded for another star which could complete the trio and guarantee multiple finals appearances in the east. Of course that then creates an attractive place for good role players.
An example of a team built through luck and building is OKC when they had Durant, Harden and Westbrook. We only saw them play together in their primes for maybe 1 year if that. That team could've become a modern day Bulls (Jordan/Pippen/Grant) or Lakers (Kareem/Magic/Worthy) or Celtics (Bird/McHale/Parish) if all 3 stayed together into their late 20s. There are no teams competing that were mostly built from the ground up. Warriors added arguably the best player in the league to an already good team. Cavs have assembled a big 3 and signed a lot of good role players that see the big 3 as their best chance to win. The Spurs signed Aldridge/Gasol/Lee.
It makes me wonder if teams outside of the top 2-3 can compete. What good is building a team and drafting well if stacked teams are simply created by star players deciding they want to play together.
your argument was solid until you threw out the fatal flaw. with the exception of the Miami heat, and "arguably" Durant, star players are NOT picking and choosing who they want to play with.
last years warriors were absolutely organically grown not built through trades. it wasnt until this year that they took part of last years already stacked team, and added Durant.
the spurs signed aldridge, a last leg gasol, and a last leg lee. with the exception of aldridge, those other guys are nothing more than role players now, and not "stars playing with whom ever they want"
until aldridge signed, the spurs had zero "stars" sign in free agency in decades. they built internally through good scouting, and great coaching, to go along with unequaled leadership and coachability from the stars they already had, starting with robinson, followed by duncan and tony/manu.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
