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Old 06-14-2017, 08:34 PM
JL
 
8,115 posts, read 12,792,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
If Lebron could do this consistently...






http://esq.h-cdn.co/assets/16/10/480...07803-kobe.gif

Money.
One of the most disappointing things about his game. A big guy like him should've dominated with postups. He could've won many more games and possibly a couple of more championships had he developed a consistent postup. I shake my head everytime i see this. He deserves to be criticized for that. He's shown flashes that he could dominate with a postup, but his mindset doesn't seem to believe in that. Very odd.

Last edited by JL; 06-14-2017 at 08:45 PM..
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Old 06-14-2017, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
29,782 posts, read 28,799,503 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
It's definitely not true that Lebron's offense has regressed to rookie-year levels.
His mid-range game has regressed to near rookie year levels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Kyrie is the go-to scoring option because Lebron allows him to be that. It's even arguable if Kyrie is the go-to scoring option, but that argument requires more depth than I'm gonna give in this particular response...
Kyrie is the go-to option because he is a flat out better scorer than Lebron. That doesn't mean he's a better player, but that aspect of his game is better.

Quote:
But when the game needed to be put away, James handed the ball off.

It was Kyrie Irving’s turn, and when you need someone to create points from nothing, there’s no one better at it.

...

It’s a unique skill set, Irving’s, but one that is so absolutely needed at the end of games. James has always worked best as a part of a total offense. He’s the fulcrum, the anchor point who is at his best when the ball is moving, defenders are off-balance and he’s able to use his once-in-a-lifetime combination of vision, skill and athleticism to pick out the right play and devastate a defense.

James isn’t at his best when guys are standing around and taking turns. He too often settles for pull-up jumpers or tries to force something. It’s just never been a part of his game. In the early days with Dwyane Wade and the Heat, we saw it – James simply prefers to play in an offense where people are moving the ball.

This isn’t to say that Irving is more important than James or some such thing – it’s just that his game is uniquely suited to what is needed in crunch time in the fourth quarter. A knock placed on James throughout his career, a stupid knock but a knock all the same, is that he can't finish games out. That’s silly, as he had won plenty of games, but the kernel of truth at its heart is that James is a better player in the context of a passing offense. He's not at his best trying to go one-on-one every time down the court, which is often what’s needed late in games.
LeBron is perfect, but Kyrie Irving is the one getting the call in crunch time | FOX Sports

Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Lebron has been the go-to scoring option his entire career. It's worked out pretty well for the teams he's played for...
Nobody said he isn't a good scorer or that he isn't a good player. I said that his lack of a mid range game is an obvious weakness that he's failed to improve upon throughout most of his career. If we're going to talk about what Love could do to improve, or what Kyrie could do, then it's only fair to point out some of Lebron's limitations that could possibly be holding his team back.

Last edited by BajanYankee; 06-14-2017 at 09:06 PM..
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Old 06-14-2017, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
29,782 posts, read 28,799,503 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JL View Post
One of the most disappointing things about his game. A big guy like him should've dominated with postups. He could've won many more games and possibly a couple of more championships had he developed a consistent postup. I shake my head everytime i see this. He deserves to be criticized for that. He's shown flashes that he could dominate with a postup, but his mindset doesn't seem to believe in that. Very odd.
Yeah, there have been some times in the Finals over the last 3 years where he's had a matchup against Curry and either faced him up or passed the ball away. Let's forget Michael and Kobe here. If he had Shaun Livingston's or Sam Cassell's post ability, he would have scored on 100% of those possessions. We had a good running thread last year on the '96 Bulls vs '16 Warriors, and the one reason I'd say the Warriors couldn't beat the Bulls is because the Bulls would figure out ways to get Curry onto Jordan and Jordan would back him down and score 100% of the time. A Lebron-Curry mismatch should have any coach licking his chops but Lebron doesn't have the toolset to consistently exploit it.
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Old 06-14-2017, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
29,782 posts, read 28,799,503 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
I think it's too late for fancy footwork. That stuff takes a lot of time to master. Things could get really ugly when Lebron loses a little off his first step.
Shaun Livingston developed "fancy" footwork after a devastating leg injury. Listen to him talk about how he went from being an explosive slasher to a post up player.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlHFKID92rE

Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant are not the only two players to ever live who've had strong post up games.
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Old 06-14-2017, 09:19 PM
 
12,547 posts, read 8,071,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Cleric View Post
Agree, agree.

Steph had a lot more defensive attention directed his way too.

Basically, Kyrie was single covered by Thompson, with little to no help coming when Kyrie beat him.

I don't see the Cavs trading off any of their starters, but they really need to get some quality help coming from the bench. Frye must be in the dog house, and on his way out, after languishing on the bench during the finals.
Thompson is only GS's best perimeter defender. And did you see many of shots Kyrie had to make? He may be one of the only guards in the league that can consistently make such difficult shots.
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Old 06-14-2017, 09:59 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 2,095,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
I was comparing players before the series started, but now that it's over can we say:

Irving played as well or better than Curry?
You would have to be out of your mind to think this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
I wouldn't take 3 or 4 PGs over Irving.

As far as Draymond not playing well- he had to cover and play help defense on Lebron.
Irving is not a point guard. He's a top 5 shooting guard in today's NBA.
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Old 06-14-2017, 10:01 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 2,095,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Yeah, there have been some times in the Finals over the last 3 years where he's had a matchup against Curry and either faced him up or passed the ball away. Let's forget Michael and Kobe here. If he had Shaun Livingston's or Sam Cassell's post ability, he would have scored on 100% of those possessions. We had a good running thread last year on the '96 Bulls vs '16 Warriors, and the one reason I'd say the Warriors couldn't beat the Bulls is because the Bulls would figure out ways to get Curry onto Jordan and Jordan would back him down and score 100% of the time. A Lebron-Curry mismatch should have any coach licking his chops but Lebron doesn't have the toolset to consistently exploit it.
'96 Bulls or '17 Warriors? Illegal defense rules or 3 seconds?
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Old 06-15-2017, 07:24 AM
 
12,547 posts, read 8,071,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
You would have to be out of your mind to think this.
The Warriors must be out of their minds considering Kyrie gets their best perimeter defender and still drops 30 ppg on 47% shooting.
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:46 AM
 
3,273 posts, read 2,128,163 times
Reputation: 1537
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
The Warriors must be out of their minds considering Kyrie gets their best perimeter defender and still drops 30 ppg on 47% shooting.
Two years in row too. For all the defensive rating numbers that are thrown out here why should this stat be casually discarded. Let's be honest defense is largely a team effort in this day and age and if you want to say Curry is better than Kyrie on the defensive end it won't stop Cleveland from attacking Curry on that end.


And this Kyrie is not a PG stuff???? Fine what is Lebron? Is Draymond a center? The bottomline a few posters on here need to give this guy his due, he hit game winning shot in the Game 7 last year and played well again this year- as you mentioned against their stud defender.
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:54 AM
 
Location: SFBA CA USA. GO GIANTS!
1,365 posts, read 813,628 times
Reputation: 960
Kyrie Irving is a great talent, no doubt. And he's only 25 years old. We haven't yet seen the best tendition of him.

But the Warriors are champions, 2 out of the last 3 years.

I leave for a vacation in Italy this weekend. My rental car will be flying GSW flags through south-central Europe for a couple of weeks! Italy, San Marino, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Austria, Germany, and Slovenia -- those Warriors car flags aren't coming down until I fly out of Venice!
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