U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Basketball
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 06-14-2017, 09:39 AM
 
15 posts, read 6,226 times
Reputation: 15

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
Finals conversion rate is now a stat? My guess is that MOST greats (Jordan/Bird/Magic/Wilt/Kareem/Shaq/Kobe/Duncan) could do that in the east with teams built around them. No other top 5 NBA players play in the east...hell, are their any top 10 players? Perhaps Paul George is close?

What would have been interesting is if say Durant went to the Wizards. A Durant/Wall/Beal trio would have likely challenged Lebron/Kyrie/Love.
The Lebron homers are out in full force like crazy right now.

The east would've been destroyed by Duncan/Kobe
You play against 30 - 40 win teams at best every year on Super Teams than complain about the Warriors !!!

Fans were calling the Celtics the weakest 50 win team in history.

This is what Duncan & Kobe road looked like every year

1st rd vs 52 win teams at worst
2nd rd vs 56 win teams at worst
3rd rd vs 61 win team at best and if not still a 50 + team

Micheal Jordan road was the same !!! Hard and tough.

Lebron road
1st rd vs 32 win team at best
2nd rd vs 38 win team at best
3rd rd vs 42 or 50 win team maybe

Pacers,Bulls,Hawks had some good years from 11 - 15 but none of them were favored to beat Lebron and his Super Teams.

 
Old 06-14-2017, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,251 posts, read 2,870,949 times
Reputation: 4547
Quote:
Originally Posted by KB08 View Post
The Lebron homers are out in full force like crazy right now.

The east would've been destroyed by Duncan/Kobe
You play against 30 - 40 win teams at best every year on Super Teams than complain about the Warriors !!!

Fans were calling the Celtics the weakest 50 win team in history.

This is what Duncan & Kobe road looked like every year

1st rd vs 52 win teams at worst
2nd rd vs 56 win teams at worst
3rd rd vs 61 win team at best and if not still a 50 + team

Micheal Jordan road was the same !!! Hard and tough.

Lebron road
1st rd vs 32 win team at best
2nd rd vs 38 win team at best
3rd rd vs 42 or 50 win team maybe

Pacers,Bulls,Hawks had some good years from 11 - 15 but none of them were favored to beat Lebron and his Super Teams.
P you exaggerating and you know it lol...

Lebron has never played a 32 or 38 win team in the playoffs. He never played a 42-win team in the ECF. We all know he's played in the weaker conference. Hahaha stop exaggerating...

You say Lebron pads stats, hell if it's so easy, why haven't more people padded the stats like him? You buggin...

We both saw Kobe and Lebron play. Kobe and Lebron is like Lebron and Jordan but in reverse. 80% of people are aware Lebron is a greater player than Kobe ever was--and it's far from just ESPN who share that sentiment!
 
Old 06-14-2017, 10:33 AM
 
15 posts, read 6,226 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
P you exaggerating and you know it lol...

Lebron has never played a 32 or 38 win team in the playoffs. He never played a 42-win team in the ECF. We all know he's played in the weaker conference. Hahaha stop exaggerating...

You say Lebron pads stats, hell if it's so easy, why haven't more people padded the stats like him? You buggin...

We both saw Kobe and Lebron play. Kobe and Lebron is like Lebron and Jordan but in reverse. 80% of people are aware Lebron is a greater player than Kobe ever was--and it's far from just ESPN who share that sentiment!



Who are these 80% of people ? There's Lebron fans and there's Kobe fans.Lebron fans for some reason just catch a fit if someone says Kobe is better like it's criminal or something.

They run to stats but never break down the reason behind them.They run to Mvps but never tell how Kobe was snubbed of at least 3 to 4.But they ignore the rings lol

Like i said i rather believe the greats over espn analysis.At least the greats been on the court and are speaking from experience and knowledge.

I posted both of they best numbers before and Lebron is better at rebounding,passing and field goal %

Kobe is the better 1 on 1 defender and the better 1 on 1 scorer even though he's not as efficient due to his shot selection and ability to shoot over multiple defenders and split double teams.

Stats wont show footwork or dribbles

Stats wont show killer instinct and will to win.

Basically he's better than Kobe at the same things he's better at than Jordan but Jordan never played with Shaq so many hold that over Kobe without looking at his numbers from 01 - 04.

Lebron legacy was tarnished forver when he teamed up with other Superstars.If you say Kobe had Shaq than what did Kobe accomplish without Shaq ?

The talent Lebron faced in the finals is what Kobe had to face in his 1st 3 rounds !!!

Kobe never faced the Warriors in the finals but he did face the Super Team Celtics.

Last edited by KB08; 06-14-2017 at 11:45 AM..
 
Old 06-14-2017, 10:40 AM
 
15 posts, read 6,226 times
Reputation: 15
And James Harden and Westbrook pad more stats than Lebron !!!!!!

Lebron is an all time great,what else do you want me to say ?

Every player in the top 10 has a strong argument on why they should be higher than their ranking.

If someone has Wilt # 1 i couldn't get upset.
If Bird is top 5 i couldn't get upset.
If Lebron is top 5 i couldn't get upset.

Everyone has a strong argument but that top 3 to 4 has to be sealed in history with players that have 5/6 - 11 rings.

Unless someone can win 5 or 6 than that case is closed.
 
Old 06-14-2017, 11:02 AM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,223,031 times
Reputation: 1982
You're still here?
 
Old 06-14-2017, 04:06 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,223,031 times
Reputation: 1982
Larry bird said Jordan was god in tennis shoes (odd, basketball players don't wear tennis shoes)
Jordan said Kobe was the closest thing to himself.

Now Durant says Kyrie Irving is better than Iverson...

All must be the truth then
 
Old 06-14-2017, 04:36 PM
 
11,680 posts, read 7,085,609 times
Reputation: 6387
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
No, not technically, but it falls under the impact Lebron has had on the gane that can't be looked up on a stat sheet. We know Jordan's Finals conversion rate was far less...

I just hop you're still here when Lebron retires in 2023 with a 5-6 record, owning most of the important records in League history, and nearly doubled Jordan's Finals appearances, while both beating and losing to teams better than any team Jordan ever faced. I'd like to hear your excuses then...

I guarantee you if you put Durant on any East squad in his prime, he's not going to 7 straight Finals. I guarantee you Duncan, Kobe, Shaq, KG, Paul, Curry, probably 99.9% of all GOATs who've played in the NBA, including Michael Jordan, can't play in today's climate in the East and go to 7 straight Finals. So your second sentence is still a validation of Lebron being one of the single most dominant players to ever suit up...

Conversely, if he was drafted and played his entire career in the West, I agree that he would never have been in 7 straight Finals. I'll take the bet, however, that through Year 14 as he is now, he'd still be a 3x champion. He's just have fewer losses by virtue of fewer appearances...

Only on CD-Basketball is it better to not make The Finals than to actually make it. How does that work?
LOL @ Lebron winning two more rings. And good grief - Lebron needs 11 finals appearances to accomplish LESS than what Jordan did in 6? LOL.

So you're saying Durant and an additional TWO all-stars couldn't make the finals every year? Who's stopping them? The Celtics led by a 5'8 guy with poor defense?

Jordan + two all stars wouldn't make it past the mighty Celtics?
Kareem + two all stars?
Magic + two all stars?
Kobe?
Duncan?

You are in melt down mode and it's hilarious.

Take a deep breathe and accept that Lebron will likely never win another ring unless he becomes a ring chaser.
 
Old 06-14-2017, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,251 posts, read 2,870,949 times
Reputation: 4547
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
LOL @ Lebron winning two more rings. And good grief - Lebron needs 11 finals appearances to accomplish LESS than what Jordan did in 6? LOL.

So you're saying Durant and an additional TWO all-stars couldn't make the finals every year? Who's stopping them? The Celtics led by a 5'8 guy with poor defense?

Jordan + two all stars wouldn't make it past the mighty Celtics?
Kareem + two all stars?
Magic + two all stars?
Kobe?
Duncan?

You are in melt down mode and it's hilarious.

Take a deep breathe and accept that Lebron will likely never win another ring unless he becomes a ring chaser.
Hahahaha nah, you're in melt down mode because you're talking about teams that exist now. I'm talking about the entirety of someone's career...

If Kevin Durant was drafted by the Washington Wizards in 2007, same player, same skill, you really think we're here talking about a guy who's going to 7 straight Finals? If there's a knock on Durant, it's that he isn't anywhere near the leader that Lebron is. Durant isn't taking anybody to 7 straight Finals. Before this year, he had a losing record in the Western Conference Finals (1-3, so now its 2-3 and still a losing record)...

Jordan and Magic are the only persons I can make a legitimate argument for....

Kobe and Kareem were #2's for the bulk of their titles--Kareem was #2 for 4 of his 6, Kobe for 3 of his 5. Since this entire subtopic you and I are debating is hypothetical and can never happen, that disqualifies the both of them from this conversation...

The wedge here is that you and I look at the Jordan/James debate from two different angles. I think I'm more reasonable and willing to appreciate opposing views than you are, but there isn't a true "wrong" or "right" answer. "Jordan" went 6/6 with vastly superior help than Lebron from the top down (upper management to the end of the bench). You like to be a funny guy and miscontrue me as saying Lebron has never had help---I've never said that and that's not what I'm saying now. However, it shouldn't be a point of contention that Lebron's championship teams were worse than all of Jordan's. The best team Lebron ever played for was the 2013 Heat. They were great. They weren't the '90s Bulls...so "Jordan", all by himself I guess, went 6/6 with a far greater supporting cast than Lebron, playing inferior Finals opponents than Lebron. These are statement of facts. Where is the joke?

What would Jordan's record be versus The Row? You keep dodging that question. 6/6 is about the only argument Jordan guys can make, because literally nobody believes Jordan would 5/5 versus Spurs/Spurs/Warriors/Warriors/Warriors. Nobody believes Jordan could take multiple head coaches to The Finals (hell he had his chance, didn't do it)...

End of the day, I accept that they both are the GOATs of their eras. I accept that at this point, Lebron is still behind Jordan. But boy, its awfully close and not nearly as distant as you suggest. I doubt seriously that he's won the last ring he's gonna get. One more ring would do it for me. I understand that wouldn't do it for you, and I'm cool with that. Everybody grades players on different criteria. But if he keeps an elite level of play up, continues making Finals and winning them (I'm not saying he goes to 3 more Finals and loses all of them he passes Jordan), keeps knocking off records, come on...even the staunchest anti-Lebron's such as yourself have to concede we may have seen the best player ever in that scenario...

Now, the real game is about to begin (NFL Training Camp is next month). So I'll check in but besides a few more posts this month, and few posts the rest of the year, I won't be back until near the 2018 postseason. Got the best sport to attend to that has far more depth and interesting storylines. I enjoy the basketball debates, though!
 
Old 06-14-2017, 05:36 PM
 
11,680 posts, read 7,085,609 times
Reputation: 6387
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Hahahaha nah, you're in melt down mode because you're talking about teams that exist now. I'm talking about the entirety of someone's career...

If Kevin Durant was drafted by the Washington Wizards in 2007, same player, same skill, you really think we're here talking about a guy who's going to 7 straight Finals? If there's a knock on Durant, it's that he isn't anywhere near the leader that Lebron is. Durant isn't taking anybody to 7 straight Finals. Before this year, he had a losing record in the Western Conference Finals (1-3, so now its 2-3 and still a losing record)...

Jordan and Magic are the only persons I can make a legitimate argument for....

Kobe and Kareem were #2's for the bulk of their titles--Kareem was #2 for 4 of his 6, Kobe for 3 of his 5. Since this entire subtopic you and I are debating is hypothetical and can never happen, that disqualifies the both of them from this conversation...

The wedge here is that you and I look at the Jordan/James debate from two different angles. I think I'm more reasonable and willing to appreciate opposing views than you are, but there isn't a true "wrong" or "right" answer. "Jordan" went 6/6 with vastly superior help than Lebron from the top down (upper management to the end of the bench). You like to be a funny guy and miscontrue me as saying Lebron has never had help---I've never said that and that's not what I'm saying now. However, it shouldn't be a point of contention that Lebron's championship teams were worse than all of Jordan's. The best team Lebron ever played for was the 2013 Heat. They were great. They weren't the '90s Bulls...so "Jordan", all by himself I guess, went 6/6 with a far greater supporting cast than Lebron, playing inferior Finals opponents than Lebron. These are statement of facts. Where is the joke?

What would Jordan's record be versus The Row? You keep dodging that question. 6/6 is about the only argument Jordan guys can make, because literally nobody believes Jordan would 5/5 versus Spurs/Spurs/Warriors/Warriors/Warriors. Nobody believes Jordan could take multiple head coaches to The Finals (hell he had his chance, didn't do it)...

End of the day, I accept that they both are the GOATs of their eras. I accept that at this point, Lebron is still behind Jordan. But boy, its awfully close and not nearly as distant as you suggest. I doubt seriously that he's won the last ring he's gonna get. One more ring would do it for me. I understand that wouldn't do it for you, and I'm cool with that. Everybody grades players on different criteria. But if he keeps an elite level of play up, continues making Finals and winning them (I'm not saying he goes to 3 more Finals and loses all of them he passes Jordan), keeps knocking off records, come on...even the staunchest anti-Lebron's such as yourself have to concede we may have seen the best player ever in that scenario...

Now, the real game is about to begin (NFL Training Camp is next month). So I'll check in but besides a few more posts this month, and few posts the rest of the year, I won't be back until near the 2018 postseason. Got the best sport to attend to that has far more depth and interesting storylines. I enjoy the basketball debates, though!
Which east teams in the last 7 years would stop prime Jordan, Kareem, Duncan, Kobe, etc + two all stars?

Prime Durant + two all stars = finals appearance from 2011-2017 in the east.

Prime Kobe, Kareem, Magic, Duncan, Jordan, etc all get the same result.
 
Old 06-16-2017, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Galewood
3,787 posts, read 8,726,716 times
Reputation: 2219
Quote:
Originally Posted by callofdutyplayer View Post
Wow Oscar number 3 ? And Kareem number 6? Most points ever 6 MVP and 6 championships? I would think he has to be top 3 ever
There's 16 pages of people's top 10, I'm positive Kareem isn't in everyone's top 3. Furthermore these list are subjective....
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Basketball
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top