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Old 07-09-2017, 06:38 AM
 
167 posts, read 76,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuietstormP View Post
You get it.
Shaq was the same way, Superman was lazy. He could have been better especially with FT effort. Had Iverson Heart and Effort been inside Shaqs body he would be the greatest player ever.
I doubt he could've been better at free throws, he had trainers, it would work for a while, then not. The only thing he refused to do with free throws is try the Rick Barry style. But there's no evidence that it's any better anyway.

He could've stayed in better shape during offseasons.

The thing that's stunning with Shaq is how he managed to stay healthy for so many years with that weight, while moving fast for his size, playing bigger minutes than centers today and taking more physical abuse than anyone else.

Mother nature gave him titanium legs.

 
Old 07-11-2017, 02:09 PM
 
3,279 posts, read 4,081,485 times
Reputation: 6149
1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. LeBron
5. Magic
6. Kobe
7. Bill Russell
8. Shaq
9. Dirk Nowitzki
10. Dr J (yes Dr J over Larry Bird, I'm totally serious)
 
Old 07-11-2017, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
12,201 posts, read 10,420,399 times
Reputation: 11215
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. LeBron
5. Magic
6. Kobe
7. Bill Russell
8. Shaq
9. Dirk Nowitzki
10. Dr J (yes Dr J over Larry Bird, I'm totally serious)
That's a pretty good list. I have to keep Bird in the Top Ten though...he was born gifted with a shot that couldn't miss.
 
Old 07-11-2017, 07:07 PM
 
3,279 posts, read 4,081,485 times
Reputation: 6149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
That's a pretty good list. I have to keep Bird in the Top Ten though...he was born gifted with a shot that couldn't miss.
Yes I haven't read all of the lists, but I don't think anyone else mentioned Dirk. I understand why Duncan is in there for most people, but I guess my anti-Wake Forest mentality got to me.

I could also understand arguments for Oscar, Elgin Baylor, Elvin Hayes etc.
 
Old 07-11-2017, 11:07 PM
 
929 posts, read 296,904 times
Reputation: 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
That's a pretty good list. I have to keep Bird in the Top Ten though...he was born gifted with a shot that couldn't miss.
Back when I cared about the NBA, I loved the old Sixer teams despite living around a sea of green. Hated the Celtics. I loved Dr J. But no way should be ranked above Bird. Not a chance. Highest I could rank Julius Erving right off the top of my head would be low 20's. And Bird belongs higher than Shaq for that matter.
 
Old 07-12-2017, 12:55 AM
 
Location: So California
8,548 posts, read 8,881,299 times
Reputation: 4641
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
Yes I haven't read all of the lists, but I don't think anyone else mentioned Dirk. I understand why Duncan is in there for most people, but I guess my anti-Wake Forest mentality got to me.

I could also understand arguments for Oscar, Elgin Baylor, Elvin Hayes etc.

I agree with Reggie Miller and Stephen A........I take prime Bird over prime Lebron.
 
Old 07-12-2017, 10:29 AM
 
3,279 posts, read 4,081,485 times
Reputation: 6149
I tend to think Bird is overrated because people forget his career was cut short. By 1988 his Atlanta Hawks outburst notwithstanding he was all but done. Now from 1980-1987 he was something else, but I give the edge to Dr J because I think he aged better. That dunk on Michael Cooper is arguably his best dunk and I believe he was 33 by then. (Yet I don't rank Stockton over Magic so what do I know?) Also Dr J if you add in his ABA career he's like top 5 all time in points and his impact on the ABA was of monster proportions.

At this stage though I think LeBron has passed them both, and he has passed Shaq who to me is better (if only marginally so) than all of them except LeBron. Dirk he only has 1 title and MVP but given his longevity I think he's in the neighborhood of a Bird or Dr J.
 
Old 07-12-2017, 10:43 AM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,875,735 times
Reputation: 2263
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. LeBron
5. Magic
6. Kobe
7. Bill Russell
8. Shaq
9. Dirk Nowitzki
10. Dr J (yes Dr J over Larry Bird, I'm totally serious)
My 1-5 bunch: Jordan, Kareem, Magic, LeBron, Bill Russell. Take them in any order. They are the peak.

6. Shaq
7. Wilt
8. Dr. J

I'm torn on 9 & 10. Here is the cast I consider: Larry Bird, David Robinson, Tim Duncan, Jerry West, Bob Pettit, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Artis Gilmore, The Big O, KG. Dirk's on the edge, as is Kobe. Chris Paul may join this group. In a decade, I think KD & Curry will join it, too, and maybe Harden. If not for his short career, I would include Yao in this group.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonnyCrockett View Post
Back when I cared about the NBA, I loved the old Sixer teams despite living around a sea of green. Hated the Celtics. I loved Dr J. But no way should be ranked above Bird. Not a chance. Highest I could rank Julius Erving right off the top of my head would be low 20's. And Bird belongs higher than Shaq for that matter.
It's a difficult exercise. I count, along with individual performance & team success, impact on the way the game is played as a factor. I think this factor favors Dr. J over Bird. These two are especially difficult to deal with, because Dr. J's career spanned the pre- & post-merger era.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slo1318 View Post
I agree with Reggie Miller and Stephen A........I take prime Bird over prime Lebron.
Well, the three of you are quite wrong.
 
Old 07-12-2017, 11:09 AM
 
167 posts, read 76,060 times
Reputation: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
My 1-5 bunch: Jordan, Kareem, Magic, LeBron, Bill Russell. Take them in any order. They are the peak.

6. Shaq
7. Wilt
8. Dr. J

I'm torn on 9 & 10. Here is the cast I consider: Larry Bird, David Robinson, Tim Duncan, Jerry West, Bob Pettit, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Artis Gilmore, The Big O, KG. Dirk's on the edge, as is Kobe. Chris Paul may join this group. In a decade, I think KD & Curry will join it, too, and maybe Harden. If not for his short career, I would include Yao in this group.
Artis Gilmore doesn't belong, unless you are very much into advanced stats. Top 50, possibly, probably not. Not that good, couldn't pass, always slowed down against good teams in the playoffs. ABA wasn't a good league. Not that NBA was great in that era, but it was better.

There's no way I would put Artis over many of his contemporaries that aren't on that list like Walt Frazier, Rick Barry, but most importantly, Moses Malone! Moses was arguably the NBA's best player for like half a decade, while Artis was probably not even the 3rd best center in the league at the same time.

I can't argue about the rest, because it's all about personal criteria, but i can't imagine criteria that would put Artis in contention for top 10, or top 20, or top 30
 
Old 07-12-2017, 11:49 AM
 
11,679 posts, read 7,050,301 times
Reputation: 6387
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
I tend to think Bird is overrated because people forget his career was cut short. By 1988 his Atlanta Hawks outburst notwithstanding he was all but done. Now from 1980-1987 he was something else, but I give the edge to Dr J because I think he aged better. That dunk on Michael Cooper is arguably his best dunk and I believe he was 33 by then. (Yet I don't rank Stockton over Magic so what do I know?) Also Dr J if you add in his ABA career he's like top 5 all time in points and his impact on the ABA was of monster proportions.

At this stage though I think LeBron has passed them both, and he has passed Shaq who to me is better (if only marginally so) than all of them except LeBron. Dirk he only has 1 title and MVP but given his longevity I think he's in the neighborhood of a Bird or Dr J.
In some ways Bird could also be underrated because having his career end early means his cumulative totals weren't as impressive as they could've been. In '88 Bird put up a Lebron-like 30/9/6 and then bam he's done. Without the feet/back problems he probably had 2-3 more MVP level seasons and 4-5 as a productive role player. Regardless, in his prime Bird is arguably as good as anyone to ever play...3 straight MVPs in a league with Magic is very impressive.
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