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Old 07-12-2017, 11:54 AM
 
167 posts, read 76,203 times
Reputation: 207

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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
In some ways Bird could also be underrated because having his career end early means his cumulative totals weren't as impressive as they could've been. In '88 Bird put up a Lebron-like 30/9/6 and then bam he's done. Without the feet/back problems he probably had 2-3 more MVP level seasons and 4-5 as a productive role player. Regardless, at his peak Bird is arguably as good as anyone to ever play...3 straight MVPs in a league with Magic is very impressive.
Yep, i think he's underrated. He was considered the better player of the two until injuries. Now whereever you look, Magic is one of top 5 undisputed, while Bird is marginal top 10 in many of these lists. Magic blossomed after Bird went down and declined, and it stuck in collective memory. Magic also retired in his prime, kind of like Jordan, which helped his legacy. Magic's career was cut short, but it was cut short in a swift blow. Bird played for a few years as a shell of former self.

I think it's fair enough to give Magic a very slight edge, but they have to be very close. Both had similar careers, both had careers cut short by injuries, Bird was the better player while they were both healthy.

 
Old 07-12-2017, 12:06 PM
 
11,680 posts, read 7,059,219 times
Reputation: 6387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chukcha View Post
Yep, i think he's underrated. He was considered the better player of the two until injuries. Now whereever you look, Magic is one of top 5 undisputed, while Bird is marginal top 10 in many of these lists. Magic blossomed after Bird went down and declined, and it stuck in collective memory. Magic also retired in his prime, kind of like Jordan, which helped his legacy. Magic's career was cut short, but it was cut short in a swift blow. Bird played for a few years as a shell of former self.

I think it's fair enough to give Magic a very slight edge, but they have to be very close. Both had similar careers, both had careers cut short by injuries, Bird was the better player while they were both healthy.
Yeah, I've noticed the same trend of virtually everyone having Magic top 5 and Bird slipping down the list. I can't totally fault that, but prime vs prime or peak vs peak Bird was probably the better player.
 
Old 07-12-2017, 04:57 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,878,325 times
Reputation: 2263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chukcha View Post
Yep, i think he's underrated. He was considered the better player of the two until injuries. Now whereever you look, Magic is one of top 5 undisputed, while Bird is marginal top 10 in many of these lists. Magic blossomed after Bird went down and declined, and it stuck in collective memory. Magic also retired in his prime, kind of like Jordan, which helped his legacy. Magic's career was cut short, but it was cut short in a swift blow. Bird played for a few years as a shell of former self.

I think it's fair enough to give Magic a very slight edge, but they have to be very close. Both had similar careers, both had careers cut short by injuries, Bird was the better player while they were both healthy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
Yeah, I've noticed the same trend of virtually everyone having Magic top 5 and Bird slipping down the list. I can't totally fault that, but prime vs prime or peak vs peak Bird was probably the better player.
5 titles & 3 MVPs make quite a case for Magic. Bird matched the MVPs, but only won 3 titles. From the standpoint of statistics, Magic assisted more & Bird scored more. Bird had a rebounding edge. Bird was a better defender. Magic better on offense.

Bird was a better shooter. This was another era of basketball, when a "sharpshooter" like Bird attempted 2 threes per game.

Magic ran point for the Lakers at 6'9". He was one of the best passers basketball has ever seen. Bird was a great passer, too, but not as good as Magic. Much as people loved Westbrook's triple-double average, Magic was close in 3 different seasons. He was also very close to averaging a triple-double in the playoffs twice.
 
Old 07-12-2017, 05:43 PM
 
3,279 posts, read 4,087,788 times
Reputation: 6149
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
My 1-5 bunch: Jordan, Kareem, Magic, LeBron, Bill Russell. Take them in any order. They are the peak.

6. Shaq
7. Wilt
8. Dr. J

I'm torn on 9 & 10. Here is the cast I consider: Larry Bird, David Robinson, Tim Duncan, Jerry West, Bob Pettit, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Artis Gilmore, The Big O, KG. Dirk's on the edge, as is Kobe. Chris Paul may join this group. In a decade, I think KD & Curry will join it, too, and maybe Harden. If not for his short career, I would include Yao in this group.
I like your top 5, good solid list. As for #6 Shaq and #7 Wilt, I love Shaq, love him, but I think I'd take Wilt over him. Still if someone said "well Wilt is taken but you can have Shaq" I'd still be deliriously happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
It's a difficult exercise. I count, along with individual performance & team success, impact on the way the game is played as a factor. I think this factor favors Dr. J over Bird. These two are especially difficult to deal with, because Dr. J's career spanned the pre- & post-merger era.
Yes that's what I think too, along with Dr J being #6 (I looked) all-time in points if you combine ABA & NBA. Also his impact on the ABA was HUGE, easily on the level as Jordan was to the NBA in the 90s I think. As with Shaq/Wilt, though, again if you were told "well Dr J is taken but you can have Larry Bird" I'd be thrilled at that second-choice. Again, though, this was what I was saying pre-LeBron--with LeBron doing his thing, I would take him over both of them.

Actually one thing I have trouble with--who would I make my 2nd team point guard. #1 is Magic, who is #2? I would tend to think Oscar Robertson, but what about Isiah Thomas and John Stockton? What about Jason Kidd (one of my favorites), Bob Cousy? That's the beauty of these discussions--even the 5th or 6th best player at a position (think Moses Malone at center, say) is really darned freaking good.
 
Old 07-12-2017, 07:56 PM
 
Location: So California
8,551 posts, read 8,889,059 times
Reputation: 4642
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
In some ways Bird could also be underrated because having his career end early means his cumulative totals weren't as impressive as they could've been. In '88 Bird put up a Lebron-like 30/9/6 and then bam he's done. Without the feet/back problems he probably had 2-3 more MVP level seasons and 4-5 as a productive role player. Regardless, in his prime Bird is arguably as good as anyone to ever play...3 straight MVPs in a league with Magic is very impressive.


Correct. I was a Laker fan growing up and hated the Celtics, but Bird, was incredible. The difference to me is that Bird always took the big shots and Lebron grew into it, but especially his first half of career he wanted no part of the last shot.
 
Old 07-13-2017, 09:38 PM
 
1,564 posts, read 1,126,953 times
Reputation: 500
I think the hardest problem doing a top 10 list is were comparing different era's and positions.

Michael Jordan once said there's no greatest of all time because each era was different. He said he never got a chance to battle against teams led by a prime Kareem & Wilt.

I agree,i think we have to select at least 2 or 3 guys from each decade to actually select the top 10. Or we can rank them by positions.

Center -

1) Wilt
2) Russell
3) Shaq
4) Kareem
5) Hakeem
6) Moses Malone
7) David Robinson
8) Patrick Ewing
9) George Mikan
10) Bill Walton / Yao Ming

PF -

1) Karl Malone
2) Charles Barkley
3) Tim Duncan
4) Kevin Garnett
5) Dirk Nowitzki
6) Elvin Hayes
7) Chris Webber
8) Bob Petit
9) Kevin Mchale
10) Dennis Rodman

SF -

1) Bird
2) LeBron
3) Julius Erving
4) Kevin Durant
5) Scottie Pippen
6) Elgin Baylor
7) John Havileck
8) Rick Barry
9) Dominique Wilkins
10) Tracy Mcgrady



SG -

1) Jordan
2) Kobe
3) Wade
4) Jerry West
5) Allen Iverson
6) Reggie Miller
7 ) Clyde Drexler
8) George Gervin
9) Ray Allen
10) Earl Monroe


PG -

1) Magic
2) Oscar Robertson
3) John Stockton
4)Isiah Thomas
5) Steph Curry
6) Jason Kidd
7) Gary Payton
8) Chris Paul
9) Steve Nash
10) Walt Frazier

Players with historical records or unique talent will forever be mentioned among the greats though.

Bill Russell with 11 rings

Wilt Chamberlain with 100 pts in a game and avg 50 a season

Micheal Jordan 6 for 6 in the finals and led 2 three peats.
Dropped 69 in the Boston Garden + 10 scoring titles

Oscar Robertson - The Walking Triple Double

Kobe Bryant - 81 pts in a game and 62 in 3 quarters

Magic Johnson - The 6'9 point guard who led his team to a championship in his rookie season. Can play all 5 positions.

Kareem - The most unstoppable shot ever with the sky hook

Shaq - Most dominant force ever.

Lebron James - Freak of nature with the combination of speed, strength and jumping ability all in one.

Steph Curry - Deadliest long range shooter we ever seen.

Kevin Durant - 6'9 forward with the talents of a guard.

Those are once in a lifetime players.
 
Old 07-14-2017, 06:03 AM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,204,830 times
Reputation: 1982
Tim Duncan 3rd best PF?
You're nuts!
No way Barkley is anywhere near better and Malone wouldn't have his numbers if he didn't have Stockton.

Tim Duncan is pretty much unanimously the greatest PF ever.

#Hater
 
Old 07-14-2017, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
21,342 posts, read 21,922,845 times
Reputation: 33561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobe25 View Post
I think the hardest problem doing a top 10 list is were comparing different era's and positions.

Michael Jordan once said there's no greatest of all time because each era was different. He said he never got a chance to battle against teams led by a prime Kareem & Wilt.

I agree,i think we have to select at least 2 or 3 guys from each decade to actually select the top 10. Or we can rank them by positions.

Center -

1) Wilt
2) Russell
3) Shaq
4) Kareem
5) Hakeem
6) Moses Malone
7) David Robinson
8) Patrick Ewing
9) George Mikan
10) Bill Walton / Yao Ming

PF -

1) Karl Malone
2) Charles Barkley
3) Tim Duncan
4) Kevin Garnett
5) Dirk Nowitzki
6) Elvin Hayes
7) Chris Webber
8) Bob Petit
9) Kevin Mchale
10) Dennis Rodman

SF -

1) Bird
2) LeBron
3) Julius Erving
4) Kevin Durant
5) Scottie Pippen
6) Elgin Baylor
7) John Havileck
8) Rick Barry
9) Dominique Wilkins
10) Tracy Mcgrady



SG -

1) Jordan
2) Kobe
3) Wade
4) Jerry West
5) Allen Iverson
6) Reggie Miller
7 ) Clyde Drexler
8) George Gervin
9) Ray Allen
10) Earl Monroe


PG -

1) Magic
2) Oscar Robertson
3) John Stockton
4)Isiah Thomas
5) Steph Curry
6) Jason Kidd
7) Gary Payton
8) Chris Paul
9) Steve Nash
10) Walt Frazier

Players with historical records or unique talent will forever be mentioned among the greats though.

Bill Russell with 11 rings

Wilt Chamberlain with 100 pts in a game and avg 50 a season

Micheal Jordan 6 for 6 in the finals and led 2 three peats.
Dropped 69 in the Boston Garden + 10 scoring titles

Oscar Robertson - The Walking Triple Double

Kobe Bryant - 81 pts in a game and 62 in 3 quarters

Magic Johnson - The 6'9 point guard who led his team to a championship in his rookie season. Can play all 5 positions.

Kareem - The most unstoppable shot ever with the sky hook

Shaq - Most dominant force ever.

Lebron James - Freak of nature with the combination of speed, strength and jumping ability all in one.

Steph Curry - Deadliest long range shooter we ever seen.

Kevin Durant - 6'9 forward with the talents of a guard.

Those are once in a lifetime players.

shouldn't there be only one, once-in-a-lifetime player?
 
Old 07-14-2017, 04:21 PM
 
52,014 posts, read 41,851,918 times
Reputation: 32455
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
Tim Duncan 3rd best PF?
You're nuts!
No way Barkley is anywhere near better and Malone wouldn't have his numbers if he didn't have Stockton.

Tim Duncan is pretty much unanimously the greatest PF ever.

#Hater
Yeah, anyone that's a threat to Kobe gets demoted....he's got Bird in front of Lebron too which in fairness is a crock anymore.

Not to mention Shaq wayyy up the rankings past even Kareem? WTH.

Also Bill Walton with Yao Ming? Huh?

A lot of the rest I agree with....but wow...you can just spot the Kobe boner poking out in a few key areas lol.
 
Old 07-14-2017, 04:22 PM
 
52,014 posts, read 41,851,918 times
Reputation: 32455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghengis View Post
shouldn't there be only one, once-in-a-lifetime player?
Maybe the poster is a squirrel? They only live like 2 years on average I think.
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