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Old 07-28-2017, 02:19 AM
 
Location: So California
8,548 posts, read 8,879,514 times
Reputation: 4641

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dallasgoldrush View Post
This is one of the reasons Shaq was ahead of Kareem on my list, but only slightly. As dominant an all-around player as Kareem was, I frankly doubt he could have done the same things in a match-up against Shaq's size and strength.

The Shaq-era NBA players Kareem most resembles in both build and style of play are David Robinson and Kevin Garnett.

Shaq's teams won most of its important match-ups against Robinson's teams (meaning championships were at stake), and the ones Robinson's teams won usually happened when Tim Duncan was playing at his peak, with the combined ability of those twin towers being needed to somewhat neutralize Shaq.

With Kevin Garnett, as much of a beast as he was all over the floor during his and Shaq's parallel career primes, I don't think he technically even matched up against Shaq very often. He was a Hall-of-Fame All-Time Great 4-Man who was entirely too small to do anything against Shaq, who was just one position up at the 5, so KG's team's didn't give Shaq much trouble either.

So yeah, there's a legitimate argument for Shaq over Kareem.

Re-posting my list for reference:

My All-Time All-NBA Team as of 2017:

1st Team
PG- Magic Johnson
SG- Michael Jordan
SF- LeBron James
PF- Tim Duncan
C- Hakeem Olajuwon

2nd Team
PG- John Stockton
SG- Kobe Bryant
SF- Kevin Durant
PF- Larry Bird
C- Shaquille O'Neal

3rd Team
PG- Gary Payton
SG- Jerry West
SF- Scottie Pippen
PF- Kevin Garnett
C- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

4th Team
PG- Stephen Curry
SG- Dwyane Wade
PF- Charles Barkley
PF- Karl Malone
C- Wilt Chamberlain

Garnett doesnt belong on the list, put Dirk in there.
No way Hakeem and Shaq are better than Kareem and Wilt.
Karl Malone should be 3rd team.
Bird over Duncan or Lebron.

 
Old 07-28-2017, 05:54 AM
 
482 posts, read 251,301 times
Reputation: 1196
Quote:
Originally Posted by slo1318 View Post
Garnett doesnt belong on the list, put Dirk in there.
I've watched Dirk live many times. He's great, no doubt. But one of the things that's always bothered me about him is how one-dimensional his game is. He gets a decent number of boards because of size, but aside from that if you take away his shot I don't see that he has a second significant way he can impact a game. Even he himself once admitted he "can't guard nobody".

Quote:
Originally Posted by slo1318 View Post
Bird over Duncan or Lebron.
One thing I can't take away from Bird is the fear factor. He, Jordan and Kobe are the top three in terms of putting the fear of G-d into opponents. You never knew when they'd go nuts on you, so you didn't want to test them.

That being said, Bird is not higher on my list because I factor in defense more than I think a lot of other people do.
 
Old 07-28-2017, 07:33 PM
 
149 posts, read 63,834 times
Reputation: 84
So before the 80's i take it that Wilt was considered the Goat until Kareem & Magic came along.

Basically every generation has a Goat and it looks like nobody is dethroning Mj anytime soon.
 
Old 07-28-2017, 09:56 PM
 
1,564 posts, read 1,124,286 times
Reputation: 500
It's hard to compare big men to guards and forwards so i think it's better to do a top 10 big man list and than a top 10 forward + guard list.

Bill Russell
Wilt
Kareem
Shaq
Tim Duncan
Hakeem
David Robinson
George Mikan
Moses Malone
Kevin Garnett or Dirk


Small forwards - Guards

Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Larry Bird
Julius Irving
Jerry West
Elgin Baylor
Scottie Pippen [ Should be Dominique Wilkins but no rings ]
Isiah Thomas or Dwayne Wade
 
Old 08-01-2017, 02:44 PM
 
149 posts, read 63,834 times
Reputation: 84
Garnett is better than Dirk because of defense.

Dominique Wilkins over Pippen.

And Wade over Isiah Thomas*
 
Old 08-01-2017, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Tokyo, Japan
6,633 posts, read 8,326,006 times
Reputation: 7592
01. Michael Jordan
02. LeBron James
03. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
04. Bill Russell
05. Magic Johnson
06. Wilt Chamberlain
07. Kobe Bryant
08. Tim Duncan
09. Moses Malone
10. Shaquille O'Neal

Honorable mentions to Hakeem Olajuwon, Dirk Nowitzki, Julius Erving, Rick Barry, and Larry Bird. They would have been my next five, in this same order. Shout out to George Gervin, Tiny Archibald, and Oscar Robertson as well. I wasn't alive when the Ice Man played but being a huge basketball fan, I looked him up a long time ago, and realized that he was too awesome.
 
Old 08-01-2017, 06:06 PM
 
11,679 posts, read 7,048,359 times
Reputation: 6387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Facts Kill Rhetoric View Post
01. Michael Jordan
02. LeBron James
03. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
04. Bill Russell
05. Magic Johnson
06. Wilt Chamberlain
07. Kobe Bryant
08. Tim Duncan
09. Moses Malone
10. Shaquille O'Neal

Honorable mentions to Hakeem Olajuwon, Dirk Nowitzki, Julius Erving, Rick Barry, and Larry Bird. They would have been my next five, in this same order. Shout out to George Gervin, Tiny Archibald, and Oscar Robertson as well. I wasn't alive when the Ice Man played but being a huge basketball fan, I looked him up a long time ago, and realized that he was too awesome.
How does Lebron pass Kareem who has 6 rings, 6 MVPs, most career points and is the best college player all time?
 
Old 08-01-2017, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Tokyo, Japan
6,633 posts, read 8,326,006 times
Reputation: 7592
To those that question the greatness of LeBron James, realize that when you look at LeBron's career arc and reflect on it, to look at those that have greatly benefitted from playing with him.

This is best highlighted by Howard Beck, probably one of the most well respected and among the absolute best NBA writers that there is:
Quote:
Indeed, amazing things happen when you join Team LeBron. Images are rehabilitated. Resumes are enhanced. Legends are made.

Chris Bosh becomes a Hall of Famer. Chris Andersen and Matthew Dellavedova become folk heroes. Richard Jefferson and Rashard Lewis become champions. Mo Williams becomes an All-Star. Boobie Gibson becomes a household name.

How many careers have been made by James over the last decade? A dozen? Two dozen? Fifty?


It's good to be in the king's court.

Kyrie Irving Just Can't Wait to Be King | Bleacher Report
You know, everything that Howard Beck wrote about LeBron in the above quote is absolutely true. His ability to clearly elevate his teammates and for them to benefit by way of LeBron is a special attribute that other Superstars in the NBA today don't have. A very rare few in all of NBA history can claim that. Compare, say, Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard, or Anthony Davis to that, they fall short. Whose career has benefitted by Kevin Durant's presence? Kawhi's? Anthony Davis'? Exactly.

So when gauging the greatness of LeBron, he has all the personal accolades but its the intangibles that cannot be measured and his impact on those around him in the locker room that make his greatness far more profound. Every word in Howard's statement is absolutely true about LeBron.

How many other people in NBA history could you say that about? 2 max? 3 max?
 
Old 08-01-2017, 06:22 PM
 
11,679 posts, read 7,048,359 times
Reputation: 6387
Bosh is a borderline HOFer. He was a 24/11 player the season before joining the Heat. His odds of being in the hall may be just as high if he spent those 4 years putting up 25/10 on his own team.

Mo Williams barely became a 1x all star. He basically put up the same numbers before joining Lebron (17/6/4 on 48% shooting).

Delly stepped up as role player with grit and hustle - I'm not sure Lebron made him. Lebron did play a big role in getting the Cavs to the finals which gave Delly national attention.
 
Old 08-01-2017, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Tokyo, Japan
6,633 posts, read 8,326,006 times
Reputation: 7592
For Mo Williams, he only became an NBA All-Star in 2009 because the Cleveland Cavaliers went 66-16 during the regular season (one of the best regular season records ever), all largely attributed to LeBron but Williams was competent enough to be a decent #2. When your team has a record that strong, you tend to get into the All-Star Team because of it and the record was that strong only because of LeBron. We know how that exact same roster played out after LeBron left, they were a bottom 5 team in the NBA four years in a row. The Atlanta Hawks sent 4 NBA All-Stars to the All-Star Game in 2015, largely thanks to their team record (which ended up being 60-22 that season). Mo Williams was given an All-Star berth because he played with LeBron, who carried the Cavaliers to a 66 win season, one of the best regular season records in NBA history.

Bosh's career would have ended up like Chris Webber's. Lots of talent, plenty of All-Star bids, and a few playoff berths attributed to Bosh carrying the Raptors through the weak East. His resume got that "bonafide Hall-of-Famer" credentials when he went off to win two championships and went deep into the postseason four years in a row. He can thank LeBron for the ride there. Bosh is a great player and well deserving of the Hall-of-Fame (which isn't even that hard to get into) but his resume went a higher gear due to LeBron.

As for Dellavedova, he did more than just hustle. In half of those NBA Finals games Delly was the second best player on the Cavaliers overall, for both his offensive and defensive contributions. His offensive production was often a byproduct of a LeBron James set-up play. Delly can thank LeBron for taking him far enough to where the world can see his so called hustle. He wouldn't have reached that platform on his own.

Not trying to say LeBron is some kind of deity or something in the NBA, just saying that his influence is profound and reverberates across the league in a way few player in NBA history have. For example, Tristan Thompson is complete and utter trash, but he's trash making $80 million dollars. He can thank LeBron for that, Klutch Sports and LeBron's confidence in Tristan to the Cavaliers front office. Literally Tristan makes the kind of bank that he does because of LeBron.
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