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Old 08-03-2017, 08:31 PM
 
Location: So California
8,556 posts, read 8,891,107 times
Reputation: 4642

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
now youre just trolling, or you have no idea what youre talking about. one or the other... or both?

dirk had some great help on his title run, kidd, all time great, arguably a top 3 PG ever.
terry, butler, marion, chandler, peja. those guys were FAR FAR FAR better than any team KG was on pre-boston. leaps and bounds more help.

dirk never made a single all defensive team. KG has 12 plus a DPOY. he was also 4x rebound leader. dirk has a higher ppg average, KG averages higher in every other category. rebounds, assists, blocks and steals. its so fr that dirk could lead the league in all those categories for the next 2 seasons and still never catch KG's totals.

dirk is absolutely a better shooter/scorer, though not terribly far off on ppg. (kg shoots a better % from 2 and took less shots.)
but KG did absolutely EVERYTHING better.
the game is played at 2 ends of hte floor, and there is a reason people call him IRK, because there aint no D in nowitzki.


Obviously you have no idea, the Irk thing was from his first few years. He made great strides and became a decent defender with good steal numbers and block numbers.


Your argument for Dirk having more help goes triple for Duncan having massive help and a great coach/organization. If he was on the Hawks or Sixers, he may have been Elton Brand!? Maybe a little better...


KG is vastly over rated. A very good player, but over rated. Where Dirk and Tim seemed to be good every year no matter the player turnover. KG was rarely enough to lift his team, and went to Boston to ride the Celtics wave and Paul Pierce


Lets look at the 3 of them at age 37 as a sample, along with overall numbers especially playoffs


DIRK
At age 37 - Points: 17.3, rebounds: 6.6, assists: 2.0, effective field goal percentage: 51.5%*, player efficiency rating: 20.2, usage rate: 24.2%
Career - Games played: 1,299, points: 22.1, rebounds: 7.9, assists: 2.6, EFG: 51.3%, PER: 23.2, usage rate: 26.9%
Career Playoffs - Games played: 140, points: 25.4*, rebounds: 10.2, assists: 2.5, EFG: 48.9%, PER: 24.0, usage rate: 27.1%
Accolades - MVP's: 1, Championships: 1. Finals MVP': 1 All-star selections: 13, overall points: 6th


TIM
At age 37 - Points: 15.1, rebounds: 9.7*, assists: 3.0, EFG: 49.0%, PER: 21.3, usage rate: 25.2%
Career - Games played: 1,362,points: 19.3, rebounds: 10.9, assists: 3.1, EFG: 50.7%, PER: 24.4*, usage rate: 27.1%
Career Playoffs - Games played: 241*, points: 21.2, rebounds: 11.7, assists: 3.1, EFG: 50.3%*, PER: 24.6*, usage rate: 27.3%
Accolades - MVP's: 2*, Championships: 5*, All-Star selections: 15*, overall points: 14th


KEVIN
At age 37 - Points: 6.5, rebounds: 6.6, assists: 1.5, EFG: 44.1%, PER: 13.3, usage rate: 18.9%
Career - Games played: 1,455, points: 17.9, rebounds: 10.1, assists: 3.7*, effective field goal percentage: 50.1%, player efficiency rating: 22.7, usage rate: 24.7%
Playoffs - Games played: 143, points: 18.2, rebounds: 10.7, assists: 3.3*, effective field goal percentage: 48.1%, player efficiency rating: 21.1, usage rate: 25.4%
Accolades - MVP's: 1, Championships: 1, All-Star selections: 15*, overall points: 16th

 
Old 08-03-2017, 08:52 PM
 
1,564 posts, read 1,126,953 times
Reputation: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
Nobody cares who Jordan thinks is better than who. I mean the man picked kwame brown for god sake. He's no judge of talent.
Jordan is the Goat and his word should be law !!!

But not just Jordan,Majority of the Nba greats said Kobe was better.

Just look at ESPN poll and see the results yourself,
 
Old 08-03-2017, 08:58 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,205,971 times
Reputation: 1982
Quote:
Originally Posted by slo1318 View Post
Obviously you have no idea, the Irk thing was from his first few years. He made great strides and became a decent defender with good steal numbers and block numbers.


Your argument for Dirk having more help goes triple for Duncan having massive help and a great coach/organization. If he was on the Hawks or Sixers, he may have been Elton Brand!? Maybe a little better...


KG is vastly over rated. A very good player, but over rated. Where Dirk and Tim seemed to be good every year no matter the player turnover. KG was rarely enough to lift his team, and went to Boston to ride the Celtics wave and Paul Pierce


Lets look at the 3 of them at age 37 as a sample, along with overall numbers especially playoffs


DIRK
At age 37 - Points: 17.3, rebounds: 6.6, assists: 2.0, effective field goal percentage: 51.5%*, player efficiency rating: 20.2, usage rate: 24.2%
Career - Games played: 1,299, points: 22.1, rebounds: 7.9, assists: 2.6, EFG: 51.3%, PER: 23.2, usage rate: 26.9%
Career Playoffs - Games played: 140, points: 25.4*, rebounds: 10.2, assists: 2.5, EFG: 48.9%, PER: 24.0, usage rate: 27.1%
Accolades - MVP's: 1, Championships: 1. Finals MVP': 1 All-star selections: 13, overall points: 6th


TIM
At age 37 - Points: 15.1, rebounds: 9.7*, assists: 3.0, EFG: 49.0%, PER: 21.3, usage rate: 25.2%
Career - Games played: 1,362,points: 19.3, rebounds: 10.9, assists: 3.1, EFG: 50.7%, PER: 24.4*, usage rate: 27.1%
Career Playoffs - Games played: 241*, points: 21.2, rebounds: 11.7, assists: 3.1, EFG: 50.3%*, PER: 24.6*, usage rate: 27.3%
Accolades - MVP's: 2*, Championships: 5*, All-Star selections: 15*, overall points: 14th


KEVIN
At age 37 - Points: 6.5, rebounds: 6.6, assists: 1.5, EFG: 44.1%, PER: 13.3, usage rate: 18.9%
Career - Games played: 1,455, points: 17.9, rebounds: 10.1, assists: 3.7*, effective field goal percentage: 50.1%, player efficiency rating: 22.7, usage rate: 24.7%
Playoffs - Games played: 143, points: 18.2, rebounds: 10.7, assists: 3.3*, effective field goal percentage: 48.1%, player efficiency rating: 21.1, usage rate: 25.4%
Accolades - MVP's: 1, Championships: 1, All-Star selections: 15*, overall points: 16th
Dirk has never and is not, never was or will be a good defender. Proficient at best

As for all your stats, way to cherry pick age etc.
way to throw ONLY their place on the scoring list. You just can't get it through your scull that there is far far more than just how many points you can score.
 
Old 08-03-2017, 10:06 PM
 
Location: So California
8,556 posts, read 8,891,107 times
Reputation: 4642
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobe25 View Post
Jordan is the Goat and his word should be law !!!

But not just Jordan,Majority of the Nba greats said Kobe was better.

Just look at ESPN poll and see the results yourself,


I'd take Kobe. Jordan for whatever reason doesn't like Lebron's game. Its the fear in his eyes.
 
Old 08-03-2017, 10:26 PM
 
Location: So California
8,556 posts, read 8,891,107 times
Reputation: 4642
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
Dirk has never and is not, never was or will be a good defender. Proficient at best

As for all your stats, way to cherry pick age etc.
way to throw ONLY their place on the scoring list. You just can't get it through your scull that there is far far more than just how many points you can score.


Didn't cherry pick anything it was a random article I came across. KG dropped like a bowling ball in his career. He'd have a hard time scoring 8pts a game in China right now.


Who wins the game? Answer: The team that scores the most points.


Let say Dirk and KG play one on one to 25. Dirk will win 25-18, but hey KG had 12 rebounds and 2 blocks to Dirks 10 rebs and 1 block. Who won the game?
 
Old 08-03-2017, 10:49 PM
 
1,564 posts, read 1,126,953 times
Reputation: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slo1318 View Post
Didn't cherry pick anything it was a random article I came across. KG dropped like a bowling ball in his career. He'd have a hard time scoring 8pts a game in China right now.


Who wins the game? Answer: The team that scores the most points.


Let say Dirk and KG play one on one to 25. Dirk will win 25-18, but hey KG had 12 rebounds and 2 blocks to Dirks 10 rebs and 1 block. Who won the game?
Prime KG might take Dirk 1 on 1 based on his defense.

KG wasn't a slouch on offense either. But it'll be a good game.
 
Old 08-03-2017, 11:07 PM
 
Location: NY / Fl.
364 posts, read 298,497 times
Reputation: 715
Bird, Rick Barry, Pete Maravich, Jerry West,John Havlicek, Nowitzski, Jordan, Magic Johnson, Wilt Chamberlin, Bill Russell
 
Old 08-03-2017, 11:45 PM
 
Location: So California
8,556 posts, read 8,891,107 times
Reputation: 4642
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobe25 View Post
Prime KG might take Dirk 1 on 1 based on his defense.

KG wasn't a slouch on offense either. But it'll be a good game.
I don't think so. There are lots of YouTube videos on the two of them and Dirk had no problem scoring on Garnett. Also Kg had that fear at the end of games that would keep him from winning a one on one match up
 
Old 08-04-2017, 08:23 AM
 
167 posts, read 76,203 times
Reputation: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobe25 View Post
Prime KG might take Dirk 1 on 1 based on his defense.

KG wasn't a slouch on offense either. But it'll be a good game.
1 on 1 is tough for a defensive guy.
on the other hand, in a 1 on 1, you want to create easy shots for yourself. Dirk's best asset is scoring in tough situations. I think he looks better in a 5 on 5 than a 1 on 1
...still I'd bet on the better scorer, which is Dirk.

As for a team situation, I think if I have a superteam like the Warriors, or I already have a Kobe on my team, I pick KG. He's the ultimate big man glue guy. He'll pass, stretch the floor, make athletic plays, he's vocal on defense, he'll make everyone better on defense and make offense flow better.
Dirk is one of the best scorers in halfcourt. He creates points out of nothing. If you aren't a perfect team that's loaded with all stars, then great defenses with lock you down sometimes and you will need someone who can make something out of nothing. Dirk is one of the best. KG was an in the flow of the game scorer. He needed teammates with bigger balls on offense. It's a bit like Bird vs. Pippen imo.
 
Old 08-04-2017, 09:00 AM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,205,971 times
Reputation: 1982
Quote:
Originally Posted by slo1318 View Post
Didn't cherry pick anything it was a random article I came across. KG dropped like a bowling ball in his career. He'd have a hard time scoring 8pts a game in China right now.


Who wins the game? Answer: The team that scores the most points.


Let say Dirk and KG play one on one to 25. Dirk will win 25-18, but hey KG had 12 rebounds and 2 blocks to Dirks 10 rebs and 1 block. Who won the game?
In a game where teams average about 40-45% shooting it's a game of who can keep the other team from scoring. It's not the all star game where scoring a lot is the only thing that maters.

The NBA is about who can score, but it's more who can keep you from scoring that wins. It's why teams like the 7sec or less suns never went very far.

Dirk didn't win anything until he got guys who could defend to surround him, Kidd, Marion, chandler were all very good defenders. They covered for Irk.
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