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Old 08-07-2017, 12:29 AM
 
1,564 posts, read 1,131,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slo1318 View Post
You forget the eastern conference has been atrocious Lebrons entire career. Suffice it to say he would not have been to as many finals if his career took place in the west. Also, Kobe absolutely could've take. Those Cav teams out if he east to the finals
I remember years ago in like 2009 or 10 reporters asked Kobe how his career would've been in the Eastern Conference and Kobe literally started laughing and said he would've demolished the East and made the finals like 10 times if he had an okay team surrounding him.

Idk if he was joking or not, but if Kobe had another player like Gasol by his side than i don't see why not.

LeBron fans ignore the fact he's been playing on Super Teams since 2011,Seriously what other East team was favored to come out the East over Miami and Cleveland ? Each of those teams had 3 or 4 All star hof's on them.

At least out West it's like 4 or 5 teams that could make the finals every given year.

 
Old 08-07-2017, 06:32 AM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,215,647 times
Reputation: 1982
[quote=Kobe25;49102628]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
Kobe Bryant vs. LeBron James Comparison



Watch how i give you a logical response and you'll still come with excuses lol

Kobe came off the bench his first few years right ? That's 2 or 3 yrs there
kobe came off the bench as a rookie for 15 minutes. his 2nd season he was full on nearly 30 mpg. 3rd season he was playing 38 mpg

Than his last few years he was injured and played like 8 or 9 games in the 2014 or 15 season....That's another 3 years so that's 6 years out of his 20 seasons where his numbers were deflated.

between 14 and 15 seasons he played a combined 41 games. ill give you 3 seasons between rookie and those 2 injured.

So that leaves us with 14 seasons right ? Lebron just finished his 14th season correct. Lebron like Iverson came into the league with free will to lead his team and score as much as he wanted.

lets look at it another way, kobe played 1346 games in his career. lebron has 1061 games. thats 285 games more for kobe. thats equal to 3.48 more seasons.
so in kobes 17.5 season to lebrons 14 seasons, lebron has passed kobe in every statistical category except total points.


Kobe on the other hand came into the league as a 17/18 yr old kid that was traded to a Laker team featuring Shaq,
Van exel,Eddie Jones,Elden Campbell,Cedric Ceballos,etc

so your going to give credit to kobe for having to play on a stacked team and knock lebron for having garbage his entire first go with cleveland?

I would think any coach with common sense would choose to have a kid straight from high school coming off the bench until he proves himself worthy.1998 All star game he was voted as the youngest starter in All star history. He actually had a chance to play against Mike unlike Lebron so he learned from the master himself.

this is the most irrelevant paragraph in the lebron vs kobe debate ever. just pointless. (except it takes away from your "he wasnt a starter and had to play behind xxx" comment as this was his 2nd season.)

Now even as a starter,Kobe still didn't have free will like Lebron or Iverson because he's sharing the ball with the most dominant center ever.When Shaq was traded to Miami was the first time Kobe finally had free will to do his thing.
05 - 13 is 8 seasons Kobe had as the man with free will to score and facilitate his rebounds and assist like he wanted to.

from 2010-2014 lebron had to share the ball with bosh and wade, and currently with irving and love. thats 7 seasons so far. of course, youll credit kobe for "having to play with shaq" and discredit lebron for "playing on a super team"

Unless you can't do math,Lebron should already be surpassed Kobe in pts scored considering he had more seasons with free will as the man to lead his team.

But even than Kobe still has the highest scoring season
35/36 ppg in 2006 , He damn near scored 3000 pts that season.

again irrelevant really but ok lets play. kobe had 3 seasons of 30 ppg+ lebron has currently had 2 at 30 ppg. (not counting lebrons 29.7 season in 09-10) kobe has a career average of 25ppg lebron has a career average of 27.1.
if you take out the rookie season for kobe (the only season he averaged single digit) his career average was still 25.9


Now of course the Lebron apologist will say duh Lebron isn't a scorer but im just giving you an example of how stats can twist the real story.

Don't debate with me, debate with the fans !!

2016,
ESPN*launched*a poll on Wednesday asking online basketball fans to vote for the NBA's best player since Jordan. As of press time, freshly retired Los Angeles Lakers legend Kobe Bryant and Cleveland Cavaliers superstar LeBron James emerged as the top choices for the title.

Bryant dominated the poll with more than 23,000 votes or 48 percent of the total number of participants. James trailed behind with almost 18,000 votes or 36 percent of the overall votes.
debate with the fans? lol so silly. As of press time, freshly retired Los Angeles Lakers legend Kobe Bryant. you do realize how something like that can skew a poll right? in addition, id like the link to the actual poll t osee where the majority of votes were placed. (espn polls have a "by state" map showing where the votes were placed)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobe25 View Post
I remember years ago in like 2009 or 10 reporters asked Kobe how his career would've been in the Eastern Conference and Kobe literally started laughing and said he would've demolished the East and made the finals like 10 times if he had an okay team surrounding him.

please link the interview, otherwise, your full of crap.

Idk if he was joking or not, but if Kobe had another player like Gasol by his side than i don't see why not.

LeBron fans ignore the fact he's been playing on Super Teams since 2011,Seriously what other East team was favored to come out the East over Miami and Cleveland ? Each of those teams had 3 or 4 All star hof's on them.

At least out West it's like 4 or 5 teams that could make the finals every given year.
so in the other post you praise kobe for having to play with all timers, and then the "most dominant player ever" in shaq as the reason his numbers are so low, now youre telling that lebrons numbers are so high BECAUSE he played with greats?

you really have to make up your mind. you cant have your cake and eat it too.

bottom line lebron in LESS SEASONS and in LESS GAMES has blown past kobe in every statistical category except points which will almost guaranteed, fall in the next 3-5 seasons.
nobody cares who or why jordan says any player is better than any other. 2 words for jordan KWAME BROWN... nobody cares what fans said a couple of weeks after a HOF/top 10-15 player retired compared to another HOF/top 10 player whos still got 4-6 seasons left in him at the time.

lebron > kobe
 
Old 08-07-2017, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Tokyo, Japan
6,644 posts, read 8,359,540 times
Reputation: 7598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobe25 View Post
Blake Griffin & Durant can play 1 - 5 as well,whats your point ?

A few big men have guard ability on the court.Nothing we never seen before.
1. Blake Griffin cannot play the point guard, he's not quick or mobile enough to run the floor while dribbling the ball in the way LeBron can. Blake can run the floor with the ball but you have to have patience and time to allow him to be a primary facilitator, that's just not his game. He thrives as a secondary facilitator to relieve the backcourt in making plays during stretches of the game but cannot run the floor with the ball all game long. LeBron can and does. Blake can play point-forward though, which is good but more limited to LeBron's all around skills. Blake also cannot play the shooting guard position either, he's not able to space the floor from the perimeter.

2. None of those guys can compare to LeBron, so why bring them up?

Also, it appears that you're not able to follow the conversation in full. What makes LeBron great is that he's done essentially everything you can to put on your resume. He's won three titles, with both of the franchises he's ever played for. In addition, he played for his hometown team, in a city that hadn't won a championship in over 53 years and brought a title to the city that he was born in (well he was born in Akron, which is a bedroom community within Greater Cleveland). He's done all the individual things, triple-doubles, double-doubles, you name it, he's done it. He's the perfect height and size to play all 5 positions and defend all 5 positions, which opens the scope of his game when he can do everything and does do everything at an elite level; rebound, steals, assists, blocks, points, vocal team leader, so on and so forth. He's the perfect size to be as quick as a guard despite being as physically built as a big man, allowing him to more than just hold his own against any opponent.

He is already in the NBA All-Time Top 10 in points and assists, and will retire, likely, in the Top 3 of both categories.

What truly makes him unique though is his availability, he's never had a serious injury that requires surgery and has never missed ample time to injury unlike just about everyone else in NBA history that broke down at one point or another in their career and missed large stretches of the season. He's never even missed a playoff game in his career and in his 14th season, he was still as lethal as ever, which you can't say about a lot of 33 year olds in the NBA.

LeBron has flaws too and he's not perfect, his attitude and micro-managing grates on people throughout the organization he plays for. He does a little too much all the time and he needs to learn to just relax and let others do things too. However based on both talent and accomplishments, he's probably as well rounded as anyone to have ever played the game.

I'm a Kobe fan like you wouldn't even understand how big a Kobe fan but no, Kobe is not higher on the all-time list than LeBron. You're insane. I love Kobe and would personally choose Kobe over LeBron because of my personal biases for Kobe but objectively, no, just no, he's not on LeBron's level. He's not.

Last edited by Trafalgar Law; 08-07-2017 at 03:00 PM..
 
Old 08-07-2017, 03:33 PM
 
149 posts, read 64,348 times
Reputation: 84
Personally i wish my boy Carmelo had a few rings because i think he was just as talented as Wade and Lebron.
 
Old 08-07-2017, 05:02 PM
 
1,564 posts, read 1,131,076 times
Reputation: 500
[quote=rigas;49104347]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobe25 View Post

debate with the fans? lol so silly. As of press time, freshly retired Los Angeles Lakers legend Kobe Bryant. you do realize how something like that can skew a poll right? in addition, id like the link to the actual poll t osee where the majority of votes were placed. (espn polls have a "by state" map showing where the votes were placed)



so in the other post you praise kobe for having to play with all timers, and then the "most dominant player ever" in shaq as the reason his numbers are so low, now youre telling that lebrons numbers are so high BECAUSE he played with greats?

you really have to make up your mind. you cant have your cake and eat it too.

bottom line lebron in LESS SEASONS and in LESS GAMES has blown past kobe in every statistical category except points which will almost guaranteed, fall in the next 3-5 seasons.
nobody cares who or why jordan says any player is better than any other. 2 words for jordan KWAME BROWN... nobody cares what fans said a couple of weeks after a HOF/top 10-15 player retired compared to another HOF/top 10 player whos still got 4-6 seasons left in him at the time.

lebron > kobe

I'll make it easy for you.

Kobe as the man led his team from 05 - 13
Midway through 05 he was hurt so look like that's probably another season i can chop away from Kobe. [ 7 1/2 seasons ]

Lebron even on Super Teams had free will to be the man.

I remember Dwade saying it's best he holds back so Lebron can do his thing.

So by math in 2017 Lebron had 7 more seasons of free will than Kobe ever had to lead his team.LET THAT SINK IN !

Yet Kobe has more seasons playing at an elite level.

Seasons avg 27 ppg or higher Lebron had 8
Seasons avg 27 ppg or higher Kobe had 9

Keep in mind Kobe even avg 30 ppg while playing alongside Shaq !!

I wont argue with you far as Rebounds & Assists but far as scoring,Kobe is better than Lebron flat out.

Far as fg% majority of Lebron shots are layups or inside the paint where Kobe is on the perimeter shooting fadeaways over 2 to 3 defenders [ Killer Instinct ]

More 60 pt games = Kobe
More 50 pt games = Kobe
More 40 pt games = Kobe
More 35 pt games = Kobe
62 pts in 3 quarters = Kobe
40 ppg for an entire month 4 different times
55 pts at half-time
57 pts in 3 quarters 3 different times
30 pts in a quarter twice
65 pts , 50 pts , 60 pts , 50 pts FOUR GAMES IN A ROW !!!
NO NEED TO CONTINUE

Higher career high in reg season = Kobe
Higher career high in playoffs = Kobe

Even on defense Kobe is better.
Kobe made the all defensive team 12x to Lebron 4 or 5
So based on numbers Kobe is the better 2 way player as well.

So you don't like what Mike said,here's a list of other Nba greats that rank Kobe over Lebron

Dwayne Wade
Charles Barkley
Russell Westbrook
Kenyon Martin
Ron Artest
Kyrie Irving
Allen Iverson
Reggie Miller
Shaquille Oneal
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Scottie Pippen
Mark Jackson
Stephen Jackson
Tracy McGrady
Gilbert Arenas
Paul George
Kevin Durant
Dennis Rodman
Derek Fisher
The GOAT Himself

I even could switch the debate to Jordan vs Lebron and you'll still come up with excuses.

Again,you can argue with the NBA greats and fans



70,876 people have voted through ESPN and Kobe came out on top 60% to Lebron 40%

Looks like the majority of our readers agree with Jordan that Kobe is better



SportsNation -- How would you rank LeBron James and Kobe Bryant?

Log into the link and see for yourself that the votes came from around America lol


You need me to link another poll from years ago ? Im not making this stuff up lol Fans around the world have chosen Kobe over Lebron time and time again.

You went as far as saying you needed to see what states voted like Kobe isn't recognized across the globe as the 2nd Mike.
 
Old 08-07-2017, 05:06 PM
 
1,564 posts, read 1,131,076 times
Reputation: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Facts Kill Rhetoric View Post
1. Blake Griffin cannot play the point guard, he's not quick or mobile enough to run the floor while dribbling the ball in the way LeBron can. Blake can run the floor with the ball but you have to have patience and time to allow him to be a primary facilitator, that's just not his game. He thrives as a secondary facilitator to relieve the backcourt in making plays during stretches of the game but cannot run the floor with the ball all game long. LeBron can and does. Blake can play point-forward though, which is good but more limited to LeBron's all around skills. Blake also cannot play the shooting guard position either, he's not able to space the floor from the perimeter.

2. None of those guys can compare to LeBron, so why bring them up?

Also, it appears that you're not able to follow the conversation in full. What makes LeBron great is that he's done essentially everything you can to put on your resume. He's won three titles, with both of the franchises he's ever played for. In addition, he played for his hometown team, in a city that hadn't won a championship in over 53 years and brought a title to the city that he was born in (well he was born in Akron, which is a bedroom community within Greater Cleveland). He's done all the individual things, triple-doubles, double-doubles, you name it, he's done it. He's the perfect height and size to play all 5 positions and defend all 5 positions, which opens the scope of his game when he can do everything and does do everything at an elite level; rebound, steals, assists, blocks, points, vocal team leader, so on and so forth. He's the perfect size to be as quick as a guard despite being as physically built as a big man, allowing him to more than just hold his own against any opponent.

He is already in the NBA All-Time Top 10 in points and assists, and will retire, likely, in the Top 3 of both categories.

What truly makes him unique though is his availability, he's never had a serious injury that requires surgery and has never missed ample time to injury unlike just about everyone else in NBA history that broke down at one point or another in their career and missed large stretches of the season. He's never even missed a playoff game in his career and in his 14th season, he was still as lethal as ever, which you can't say about a lot of 33 year olds in the NBA.

LeBron has flaws too and he's not perfect, his attitude and micro-managing grates on people throughout the organization he plays for. He does a little too much all the time and he needs to learn to just relax and let others do things too. However based on both talent and accomplishments, he's probably as well rounded as anyone to have ever played the game.

I'm a Kobe fan like you wouldn't even understand how big a Kobe fan but no, Kobe is not higher on the all-time list than LeBron. You're insane. I love Kobe and would personally choose Kobe over LeBron because of my personal biases for Kobe but objectively, no, just no, he's not on LeBron's level. He's not.
I respect your opinion, respect mines and lets
keep it pushing forward.


70,876 people have voted through ESPN and Kobe came out on top 60% to Lebron 40%

Looks like the majority of our readers agree with Jordan that Kobe is better

SportsNation -- How would you rank LeBron James and Kobe Bryant?

Just like i told the other poster,Debate with Nba all time greats and the fans around the world not me lol
 
Old 08-07-2017, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Tokyo, Japan
6,644 posts, read 8,359,540 times
Reputation: 7598
At the end of the day, Kobe led his team to 2 NBA Finals and won 2 NBA Finals MVPs for his services. He was viewed as the de facto leader of both of those championships in 2009 and 2010. He played a complimentary role in his first three NBA titles, which is why he was so hellbent on getting Shaq out of town because he felt that Shaq didn't take his work seriously and got all the credit for it unfairly.

LeBron in contrast has led his team to 3 NBA Finals, he was the man for all three of those and won the NBA Finals MVP in all three.

I don't think looking at championships by themselves in a vacuum is the best way to judge who the best of all-time is, it is one component but we have to add several more into the fold to really get a discussion underway.

I like Kobe more than LeBron because Kobe was a more serious player and he was a workhorse for his craft, was very strict and disciplined, and treated falling short as nothing other than failure. Kobe is better than LeBron in the last 2 minutes of the game, he never hesitates to take the game winner, regardless if he makes it or misses it but he never shies away from it. Kobe Bryant along with Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Elon Musk are more of less the only people I've ever been inspired by in any capacity. So I am not being biased, I am as big a Kobe fan as they come but being a fan of someone doesn't mean you pretend to not know the truth and I can't pretend. LeBron is all around the more complete NBA player.

That being said, those are my personal biases for Kobe. The objective truth is that LeBron is a better all around player than Kobe and when LeBron retires, he will be viewed as higher than Kobe on the all-time greatest list.

I understand that you are using online polls of what fans think to justify Kobe over LeBron and that's cool, just understand that there are deeper layers to the GOAT discussion than just that.
 
Old 08-07-2017, 05:23 PM
 
1,564 posts, read 1,131,076 times
Reputation: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Facts Kill Rhetoric View Post
At the end of the day, Kobe led his team to 2 NBA Finals and won 2 NBA Finals MVPs for his services. He was viewed as the de facto leader of both of those championships in 2009 and 2010. He played a complimentary role in his first three NBA titles, which is why he was so hellbent on getting Shaq out of town because he felt that Shaq didn't take his work seriously and got all the credit for it unfairly.

LeBron in contrast has led his team to 3 NBA Finals, he was the man for all three of those and won the NBA Finals MVP in all three.

I don't think looking at championships by themselves in a vacuum is the best way to judge who the best of all-time is, it is one component but we have to add several more into the fold to really get a discussion underway.

I like Kobe more than LeBron because Kobe was a more serious player and he was a workhorse for his craft, was very strict and disciplined, and treated falling short as nothing other than failure. Kobe is better than LeBron in the last 2 minutes of the game, he never hesitates to take the game winner, regardless if he makes it or misses it but he never shies away from it. Kobe Bryant along with Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Elon Musk are more of less the only people I've ever been inspired by in any capacity. So I am not being biased, I am as big a Kobe fan as they come but being a fan of someone doesn't mean you pretend to not know the truth and I can't pretend. LeBron is all around the more complete NBA player.

That being said, those are my personal biases for Kobe. The objective truth is that LeBron is a better all around player than Kobe and when LeBron retires, he will be viewed as higher than Kobe on the all-time greatest list.

I understand that you are using online polls of what fans think to justify Kobe over LeBron and that's cool, just understand that there are deeper layers to the GOAT discussion than just that.
Look i dont hate or dislike LeBron at all. i think he had the potential to be the greatest ever at one point in time.

But he loss to much on the biggest stage,
He's played on Super Teams with 2 to 3 other Superstars by his side in the Weak Eastern conference, Of course out West that doesn't happen and we have his Nba finals record as proof.

So for the last time,let's agree to disagree !! Your mind is made up and so is mind so let a spade be a spade.
 
Old 08-07-2017, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Tokyo, Japan
6,644 posts, read 8,359,540 times
Reputation: 7598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobe25 View Post
Look i dont hate or dislike LeBron at all. i think he had the potential to be the greatest ever at one point in time.

But he loss to much on the biggest stage,
He's played on Super Teams with 2 to 3 other Superstars by his side in the Weak Eastern conference, Of course out West that doesn't happen and we have his Nba finals record as proof.

So for the last time,let's agree to disagree !! Your mind is made up and so is mind so let a spade be a spade.
I don't have a problem with your opinions overall. If you believe Kobe > LeBron, so be it. Not here to change that but just introducing new parameters to the discussion is all.

The only thing you've said that I actually have an issue with is this hang up regarding LeBron and the Superteam.

Look man, LeBron tried and did everything he could to get Chris Bosh, Dwyane Wade, and Amar'e Stoudemire to sign with the Cleveland Cavaliers in the summer of 2010 when he was a free agent. All three of them promptly rejected his offer and Wade suggested that he and Bosh team up with him in Miami instead.

What's the dude supposed to do? No one had an interest in playing in Cleveland at that time. Cleveland is not Los Angeles, it doesn't have pull like that. No one wanted to join him there. He tried and he tried hard to recruit people because you can't win championships all by yourself, he knew that, which is why he tried but he was rejected, not once but three times. Twice by people he considered his close friends (Wade and Bosh).

That's ultimately why he left.

Also, I'm not a big LeBron fan. I'm a Kobe fan and Kevin Durant fan. If I had to pick anyone other than those two then it would be Kawhi Leonard. I just think LeBron takes so much flack for random as hell things that he cannot even control, that's all.
 
Old 08-07-2017, 05:31 PM
 
1,564 posts, read 1,131,076 times
Reputation: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Facts Kill Rhetoric View Post
At the end of the day, Kobe led his team to 2 NBA Finals and won 2 NBA Finals MVPs for his services. He was viewed as the de facto leader of both of those championships in 2009 and 2010. He played a complimentary role in his first three NBA titles, which is why he was so hellbent on getting Shaq out of town because he felt that Shaq didn't take his work seriously and got all the credit for it unfairly.

LeBron in contrast has led his team to 3 NBA Finals, he was the man for all three of those and won the NBA Finals MVP in all three.

I don't think looking at championships by themselves in a vacuum is the best way to judge who the best of all-time is, it is one component but we have to add several more into the fold to really get a discussion underway.

I like Kobe more than LeBron because Kobe was a more serious player and he was a workhorse for his craft, was very strict and disciplined, and treated falling short as nothing other than failure. Kobe is better than LeBron in the last 2 minutes of the game, he never hesitates to take the game winner, regardless if he makes it or misses it but he never shies away from it. Kobe Bryant along with Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Elon Musk are more of less the only people I've ever been inspired by in any capacity. So I am not being biased, I am as big a Kobe fan as they come but being a fan of someone doesn't mean you pretend to not know the truth and I can't pretend. LeBron is all around the more complete NBA player.

That being said, those are my personal biases for Kobe. The objective truth is that LeBron is a better all around player than Kobe and when LeBron retires, he will be viewed as higher than Kobe on the all-time greatest list.

I understand that you are using online polls of what fans think to justify Kobe over LeBron and that's cool, just understand that there are deeper layers to the GOAT discussion than just that.

Your right, Lebron,Duncan and maybe even Curry will probably rank over Kobe in the media eyes when it's all said and done but whenever there's a hot debate we have to look at the majority vote and place rank based on the more populous decision.

It's like being a boxer for example. The media probably hates Mayweather so they'll most likely rank him # 13 all time.

So than we talk to other all time great boxers and ask them where does Mayweather rank ? They rank him higher than the media so who opinion do you think holds more weight ?

The bias media machine that has to sell ratings or the people that actually played the sport and knows it better than anyone else.

Isn't that how we elect our president ? The majority of the most populous votes wins the election
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