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It's really hard to imagine it happening. There probably hasn't been a player in history to come in with the expectations/hype/fanfare of Lebron, but even he doesn't seem to have done enough. If Lebron can't do it, it's really hard to imagine what type of genetic freak it might take...
For me, when I think who's the most dominate to ever play, it comes down to Jordan's 6 seasons from '91-'98. He had team success and individual success.
'91 - MVP/Ring/1st team all defensive
'92 - MVP/Ring/1st team all defensive
'93 - 2nd MVP/Ring/1st team all defensive
'96 - MVP/Ring/1st team all defensive
'97 - 2nd MVP/Ring/1st team all defensive
'98 - MVP/Ring/1st team all defensive
In 6 years you have: 4 MVPs, twice 2nd in MVP voting, 6 rings, and 6 1st team defense selections
It's really hard to imagine a player putting together such a long and dominant stint. Many players will play longer and rack up accolades that way, but to have so much greatness concentrated over as long as 6 seasons?
If we look at say Lebron's most dominant consecutive period of greatness you might have:
2011 - no MVP, no ring, 1st team all defensive
2012 - MVP/Ring/1st team all defensive (solid year)
2013 - MVP/Ring/1st team all defensive (solid year)
2014 - 2nd MVP/no ring/2nd team all defensive
2015 - no MVP/no ring/no all defensive selection
2016 - no MVP/Ring/no all defensive selection
In 6 years you have: 2 MVPs, once 2nd in MVP voting, 3 rings, 3 1st team defense selections.
That's exactly half of what Jordan accomplished.
Even if we assume the Cavs win it all this year and we knock out 2011, the best we've seen from Lebron doesn't compare to Jordan (Lebron will have no MVP and likely no all defensive selection in 2017).
Lebron has played stacked teams and greater opponents then mj look who he played prime duncan,kobe,kd,curry,
True, the East in Jordan's era was very weak. Only the first Detroit team (still just young enough) they beat was championship caliber. Otherwise those Knick, Cav and Pacer teams were all merely good.
And the OP can throw around numbers but they don't address the fact that Lebron is much more of handful than Jordan ever was. Lebron can play defensive center, can protect the rim, can man-guard anyone and can demoralize teams with important emphatic blocks and stops. He continues to score much more inside than Jordan did, Jordan was largely a perimeter player in the 2nd half of his career.
Lebron is the better rebounder and has more responsibilities. Lebron plays very big, Jordan was just a guard. And Scottie Pippen was the better and more important defender and ballhandler/passer than Jordan. No one on Cleveland can do anything better than Lebron... check that, T.Thompson can offensive rebound better.
One more championship for Lebron will definitely do it for me.
True, the East in Jordan's era was very weak. Only the first Detroit team (still just young enough) they beat was championship caliber. Otherwise those Knick, Cav and Pacer teams were all merely good.
And the OP can throw around numbers but they don't address the fact that Lebron is much more of handful than Jordan ever was. Lebron can play defensive center, can protect the rim, can man-guard anyone and can demoralize teams with important emphatic blocks and stops. He continues to score much more inside than Jordan did, Jordan was largely a perimeter player in the 2nd half of his career.
Lebron is the better rebounder and has more responsibilities. Lebron plays very big, Jordan was just a guard. And Scottie Pippen was the better and more important defender and ballhandler/passer than Jordan. No one on Cleveland can do anything better than Lebron... check that, T.Thompson can offensive rebound better.
One more championship for Lebron will definitely do it for me.
So....
4 rings > 6 rings?
2 MVPs > 4 MVPs?
3x 1st team all defense > 6x 1st team all defense
Right.....
And let's not forget that Jordan's teams were averaging well over 60 wins in the regular season whereas Lebron's teams are lucky to crack 50 (yet still make the finals).
Just let it marinate in your brain that Jordan won THREE in a row....TOOK TWO YEARS OFF, came back and won THREE in a row AGAIN!! I don't care what era a player is in - that will never be done again. It was too easy for him. Lebron has never had that level of domination.
And you honestly think the Eastern Conference is stacked now compared to the 90s?
The Bulls faced:
2x champion Pistons in '91
51 win Knicks + 57 win Cavs in '92
54 win Cavs + 60 win Knicks in '93
60 win Magic in '96
61 win Heat in '97
58 win Pacers in '98
What great eastern conference teams has Lebron faced?
The Raptors?
Flash in the pan Hawks who had half the roster injured?
49 win Pacers who took them to 7 games?
Elderly Celtics who pushed prime Lebron/Wade/Bosh to 7 games?
62 win Bulls who had one good season?
4 rings > 6 rings?
2 MVPs > 4 MVPs?
3x 1st team all defense > 6x 1st team all defense
Right.....
And let's not forget that Jordan's teams were averaging well over 60 wins in the regular season whereas Lebron's teams are lucky to crack 50 (yet still make the finals).
Just let it marinate in your brain that Jordan won THREE in a row....TOOK TWO YEARS OFF, came back and won THREE in a row AGAIN!! I don't care what era a player is in - that will never be done again. It was too easy for him. Lebron has never had that level of domination.
And you honestly think the Eastern Conference is stacked now compared to the 90s?
The Bulls faced:
2x champion Pistons in '91
51 win Knicks + 57 win Cavs in '92
54 win Cavs + 60 win Knicks in '93
60 win Magic in '96
61 win Heat in '97
58 win Pacers in '98
What great eastern conference teams has Lebron faced?
The Raptors?
Flash in the pan Hawks who had half the roster injured?
49 win Pacers who took them to 7 games?
Elderly Celtics who pushed prime Lebron/Wade/Bosh to 7 games?
62 win Bulls who had one good season?
I'll admit that the East of Lebron's era was about the same difficulty as Jordan's, both pretty easy. But don't quote MVPs and defensive teams as absolute evidence. We should all know by now that these awards are political and often deeply flawed, especially defensive teams. Jordan won more defensive honors than Pippen but Scottie was the go-to man defender and defensive playmaker. Jordan usually guarded an easy man so he could play the passing lanes, his defense was hugely overrated. Rings aren't perfect indicators either of course.
Lebron is a force in every aspect of the game and on every tile on the floor. Jordan was mostly a jumpshooter who needed others to do the hard stuff.
At some point maybe you'll stop stroking yourself thinking about Jordan.
I'll admit that the East of Lebron's era was about the same difficulty as Jordan's, both pretty easy. But don't quote MVPs and defensive teams as absolute evidence. We should all know by now that these awards are political and often deeply flawed, especially defensive teams. Jordan won more defensive honors than Pippen but Scottie was the go-to man defender and defensive playmaker. Jordan usually guarded an easy man so he could play the passing lanes, his defense was hugely overrated. Rings aren't perfect indicators either of course.
Lebron is a force in every aspect of the game and on every tile on the floor. Jordan was mostly a jumpshooter who needed others to do the hard stuff.
At some point maybe you'll stop stroking yourself thinking about Jordan.
so wait, you mean all those rings, and MVPs and finals MVPs and that DPOY and all defense and all nba doesnt mater? well hell what does mater then?
The Knicks teams that Bulls kept out of the finals for many years were a championship caliber team.
By the time they got there when Jordan was on sabbatical they'd slipped a bit and lost to Houston. (Olajuwon)
Teams the Bulls beat in the Finals include two extremely tough Utah Jazz teams and a stacked Pheonix team among others.
I think some posters are too young to know better when saying that Lebron beat better teams.
Counter argument would of course be looking at the caliber of the teams that Lebron LOST to and of course what talent he had around him.
It's hard to go up against Jordan because he's 6 of 6. There's no Finals loss to point to.
Problem with having a weak east is that you make the FInals when maybe you shouldn't and then that is counted against you while for some reason losing in the ECF or WCF you get a pass for. (oddly)
I personally think Lebron ends up Top 5 all-time if he isn't there already. We'll have to let his write the rest of his resume.
You've got to take them with perspective and don't pretend politics don't figure into those awards. Fan boys especially spin numbers and lobby only to try to display a certain result. You've done it a million times with Duncan, the Spurs, and anti-Harden, anti-Carmelo sentiment. Your opinion is heavily partisan and personal to the point that it doesn't mean much at all. And Jordan fan boys are the worst, they'll spend the rest of their lives trying to prove that every new star isn't as good as Michael.
You've got to take them with perspective and don't pretend politics don't figure into those awards. Fan boys especially spin numbers and lobby only to try to display a certain result. You've done it a million times with Duncan, the Spurs, and anti-Harden, anti-Carmelo sentiment. Your opinion is heavily partisan and personal to the point that it doesn't mean much at all. And Jordan fan boys are the worst, they'll spend the rest of their lives trying to prove that every new star isn't as good as Michael.
lol ok so tell me WHAT should we be paying attention to. you know since the 6 rings, the 10 scoring titles, the 6 finals mvps, the 5 regular mvps, the rookie of hte year, the defensive player of the year, the 14 all stars, the 9 all defensive teams, the 11 all nba teams, you know none of that maters. because you know, "politics"
Look at it from this perspective...if Lebron is already Jordan's equal than what would a future player need to do to pass Lebron? A resume equal to Jordan's wouldn't be enough? Would the player need to be 7 for 7 or 8 for 8 in the finals while averaging 30/9/9 and being 1st team all defensive every year?
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