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Old 08-29-2017, 04:46 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,876,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
I have no problem with KDs move to GS. None at all. Cavs fans should be the last to talk as well.

I have a problem with GS fans saying- they win without KD and that Curry IS the straw the stirs the drink and makes it all work and heard this awhile back and fell out of my chair "KD is a luxury".

This has not been Curry's League. He was abused in the 2016 series, and he was outplayed by his counterpart in the 17 series. Honestly the Warriors won in 15 beating Lebron with Delly as his second option- I hate the Bulls but they sweep us in 15 if they face us.

Now I will say Curry and KD are so tough to defend while on the court together. You have to play Curry 30-35 feet out and you need to trap him bump him and make him feel uncomfortable and most of the time this takes two guys. The space this leaves for a player like KD is the problem and it is the play and circumstance that beat the Cavs. Let's be honest Klay didn't really do much and he let Irving get his and Draymond was playing cheerleader half the series with foul trouble.
Are you saying he was outplayed by LeBron in the '17 series? Because you are out of your mind if you think Kyrie outplayed Curry.

Klay played elite defense all series. Draymond was hampered by foul trouble, but he was excellent when he was in. KD was great, and your are right to note the space Curry creates for him (space KD never had in OKC).

The Warriors went to the Finals twice without KD & won one of those. Curry was injured in '16. He also had a magnificent season and was still really good while slowed by injury. Curry was excellent in both the '15 & '17 Finals (and throughout the playoffs). He does, indeed, make the Warriors work.
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Old 08-29-2017, 04:52 PM
 
5,145 posts, read 2,769,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Hardly ruins the league. All teams have the same salary cap rules, the same draft rules, and the same roster rules. There was great competition this year, though injuries took a lot of wind from the sails of the WCF. Nonetheless, the Warriors, Spurs, Rockets, and Cavs were all contenders.

The Rockets got better this offseason. The Cavs may yet improve, too.

Plenty of players--even stars--leave their teams in free agency. KD gave plenty to the Thunder. Their ownership and management were never willing to keep a great young team together, so why should he stay?
KD is still a snake, and I say this as someone who used to be a fan of the Slim Reaper (I have an autographed OKC jersey). I love how all the Lebron haters threw shade at him for going to Miami and just let Durant skate. What Durant did is actually worse, because he went to the team that kicked his ass. Lebron didn't go and join up with Paul Pierce did he?

What KD did made me lose all respect for him, and just imagine how his fans in OKC feel.

But I guess not everyone can be a Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, or Kobe Bryant.
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Old 08-29-2017, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
12,201 posts, read 10,422,845 times
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Bird, Magic and Kobe played in great organizations, with solid coaching, and management who surrounded them with great talent. Not a cheap ass organization with coaches who couldn't foster anything beyond isolation ball, and a PG who may or may not pass you the ball when you're the team's best scorer.
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Old 08-29-2017, 07:42 PM
 
2,839 posts, read 1,778,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Are you saying he was outplayed by LeBron in the '17 series? Because you are out of your mind if you think Kyrie outplayed Curry.

Klay played elite defense all series. Draymond was hampered by foul trouble, but he was excellent when he was in. KD was great, and your are right to note the space Curry creates for him (space KD never had in OKC).

The Warriors went to the Finals twice without KD & won one of those. Curry was injured in '16. He also had a magnificent season and was still really good while slowed by injury. Curry was excellent in both the '15 & '17 Finals (and throughout the playoffs). He does, indeed, make the Warriors work.
Klay had a bad series (overall ; had a really good game offensively in one of the games) re-watch it.
Draymond was bad as well. Why was Draymond in foul trouble?

Look at the numbers and watch the play.

You want to play the injured card in 16? What about 15?

Kyrie shot the ball better and turned the ball over less -averaged four more minutes on the court each game too- you could make a weak argument I'm wrong but I'm certainly not out of my mind
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Old 08-29-2017, 11:09 PM
 
5,145 posts, read 2,769,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
Bird, Magic and Kobe played in great organizations, with solid coaching, and management who surrounded them with great talent. Not a cheap ass organization with coaches who couldn't foster anything beyond isolation ball, and a PG who may or may not pass you the ball when you're the team's best scorer.
WTF? OKC had the 73-9 Warriors ONE game from elimination in the WCF. That's a garbage organization with bad coaches, and bad talent?

That point guard you're critisizing just won the MVP for 2016 btw.

Here were his stats:

Rebounds: 10.7
Assist: 10.4
PPG: 31.6

and lead the league with a 30.70 PERS rating, considered extraordinary (average league PERs is around 16).

That's the guy "who may not pass" and only plays ISO ball? The guy with a nearly 31 PERs rating and 10.4 assist a game?

Are you sure you watch basketball?
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Old 08-30-2017, 12:08 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,876,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
Klay had a bad series (overall ; had a really good game offensively in one of the games) re-watch it.
Draymond was bad as well. Why was Draymond in foul trouble?

Look at the numbers and watch the play.

You want to play the injured card in 16? What about 15?

Kyrie shot the ball better and turned the ball over less -averaged four more minutes on the court each game too- you could make a weak argument I'm wrong but I'm certainly not out of my mind
I'm guessing that you would say that LBJ was better than Durant & you've said Kyrie was better than Curry. And you've said Klay & Draymond were bad. So how exactly did the Warriors win in 5, with three wins by at least 19 points?

Curry had more than 2x Kyrie's assists (he was also by far the series leader in hockey assists). Curry was the Warriors' floor general and produced tremendous opportunities for his teammates. KD had his most efficient playoffs ever, and Curry's gravity & playmaking were a huge part of that.

Curry was also a more efficient scorer, with higher eFG% & TS%.

Curry was also a far superior defender to Kyrie (incl. a series-high for steals) and a much better rebounder. He also did dirty work: hustling on defense, boxing out, setting screens. His Finals was a masterpiece. Watch what happens to Cleveland's defense when he moves, with or without the ball.

Klay played elite defense. His shooting was off by his standards, but he still had the 4th best TS% in the series: which was KD->LBJ->Curry->Klay->Kyrie, by the way. eFG% ranking was the same order.

Draymond was limited by foul trouble, but still played 35 mpg. And he used that time to fill up the stat sheet (incl. team high in rebounding) while playing excellent defense.

And yes, I identify Curry as injured in '16. It's not a card, it's reality. Sure, Kyrie was injured in '15. But Curry has always been a better player than Kyrie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliRestoration View Post
WTF? OKC had the 73-9 Warriors ONE game from elimination in the WCF. That's a garbage organization with bad coaches, and bad talent?

That point guard you're critisizing just won the MVP for 2016 btw.

Here were his stats:

Rebounds: 10.7
Assist: 10.4
PPG: 31.6

and lead the league with a 30.70 PERS rating, considered extraordinary (average league PERs is around 16).

That's the guy "who may not pass" and only plays ISO ball? The guy with a nearly 31 PERs rating and 10.4 assist a game?

Are you sure you watch basketball?
OKC has terrible management & ownership. Let me count the ways:

Dumping James Harden for Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, 2 Firsts & 2 Seconds. Harden wanted a max--$60M over 4 years. The Thunder were only willing to offer something between $52M & $55.5M. Harden was 6th Man of the Year and at that point his talent & offensive versatility were clear. And this was just after the Thunder reached the Finals on the efforts of 4 young stars.

Kevin Martin was the most effective piece of that Harden trade, but he was allowed to leave after the next season (to be replaced by Derek Fisher & Reggie Jackson).

Then they traded Reggie Jackson for Enes Kanter & let Thabo Sefolosha walk and hoped to replace them with Dion Waiters.

Finally, before KD walked, they traded Ibaka for Oladipo and a draft pick. The final nail in the coffin.

The message from the front-office has always been consistent: we are not willing to spend to contend, and we are always more focused on future flexibility than on winning now. They had a generational talent in KD, and they were never willing to go all in. Maxing out Harden would have been the right move. Harden, KD, Westbrook & Ibaka would have grown together into their primes.

Kevin Martin was effective with the Thunder as the "right now" consolation prize from the Harden trade. Then they let him go and tried to replace him with an over-the-hill Fisher & unproven youngster Reggie Jackson. When Jackson flourished, they traded him for the awkward fit of Enes Kanter (a trade made out of financial considerations, unquestionably). They also let their defensive stopper walk, who was a great fit with the team.
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Old 08-30-2017, 01:07 PM
 
5,145 posts, read 2,769,044 times
Reputation: 4714
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post

OKC has terrible management & ownership. Let me count the ways:

Dumping James Harden for Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, 2 Firsts & 2 Seconds. Harden wanted a max--$60M over 4 years. The Thunder were only willing to offer something between $52M & $55.5M. Harden was 6th Man of the Year and at that point his talent & offensive versatility were clear. And this was just after the Thunder reached the Finals on the efforts of 4 young stars.

Kevin Martin was the most effective piece of that Harden trade, but he was allowed to leave after the next season (to be replaced by Derek Fisher & Reggie Jackson).

Then they traded Reggie Jackson for Enes Kanter & let Thabo Sefolosha walk and hoped to replace them with Dion Waiters.

Finally, before KD walked, they traded Ibaka for Oladipo and a draft pick. The final nail in the coffin.

The message from the front-office has always been consistent: we are not willing to spend to contend, and we are always more focused on future flexibility than on winning now. They had a generational talent in KD, and they were never willing to go all in. Maxing out Harden would have been the right move. Harden, KD, Westbrook & Ibaka would have grown together into their primes.

Kevin Martin was effective with the Thunder as the "right now" consolation prize from the Harden trade. Then they let him go and tried to replace him with an over-the-hill Fisher & unproven youngster Reggie Jackson. When Jackson flourished, they traded him for the awkward fit of Enes Kanter (a trade made out of financial considerations, unquestionably). They also let their defensive stopper walk, who was a great fit with the team.
Letting Harden go was a bad move especially how cheaply they could have kept him.

But all that being said, OKC still was a Western Conference Powerhouse for 4 years AFTER Harden, and had the 73-9 Warriors on the verge of collapse (the Warriors did come back, then they suffered their own 3-1 collapse to LBJ).

Yes they didn't make all the perfect moves but you could say that about any team (except the Celtics, their rebuild was pretty much perfect). But they stayed at the forefront of the Western Conference for many years. Garbage organizations don't stay the top 2-3 team in the entire league for 5 years straight.

Also calling Westbrook an "iso guy who doesn't pass" is simply ridiculous considering his stat line.
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Old 08-30-2017, 01:37 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,876,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliRestoration View Post
Letting Harden go was a bad move especially how cheaply they could have kept him.

But all that being said, OKC still was a Western Conference Powerhouse for 4 years AFTER Harden, and had the 73-9 Warriors on the verge of collapse (the Warriors did come back, then they suffered their own 3-1 collapse to LBJ).

Yes they didn't make all the perfect moves but you could say that about any team (except the Celtics, their rebuild was pretty much perfect). But they stayed at the forefront of the Western Conference for many years. Garbage organizations don't stay the top 2-3 team in the entire league for 5 years straight.

Also calling Westbrook an "iso guy who doesn't pass" is simply ridiculous considering his stat line.
Cavs, during LBJ round 1, were an awful organization that was a top team in the league while he was there because of his talent. The Thunder were in the same boat.

The Thunder went to the Finals led by two 23 year olds (KD & Russ), two 22 year olds (Harden & Ibaka), and two respectable 27 year old vets (Perkins & Sefolosha). It is unconscionable that they broke up this team out of luxury tax concerns.
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Old 08-30-2017, 01:52 PM
 
2,839 posts, read 1,778,457 times
Reputation: 1243
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
I'm guessing that you would say that LBJ was better than Durant & you've said Kyrie was better than Curry. And you've said Klay & Draymond were bad. So how exactly did the Warriors win in 5, with three wins by at least 19 points?

Curry had more than 2x Kyrie's assists (he was also by far the series leader in hockey assists). Curry was the Warriors' floor general and produced tremendous opportunities for his teammates. KD had his most efficient playoffs ever, and Curry's gravity & playmaking were a huge part of that.

Curry was also a more efficient scorer, with higher eFG% & TS%.

Curry was also a far superior defender to Kyrie (incl. a series-high for steals) and a much better rebounder. He also did dirty work: hustling on defense, boxing out, setting screens. His Finals was a masterpiece. Watch what happens to Cleveland's defense when he moves, with or without the ball.

Klay played elite defense. His shooting was off by his standards, but he still had the 4th best TS% in the series: which was KD->LBJ->Curry->Klay->Kyrie, by the way. eFG% ranking was the same order.

Draymond was limited by foul trouble, but still played 35 mpg. And he used that time to fill up the stat sheet (incl. team high in rebounding) while playing excellent defense.

And yes, I identify Curry as injured in '16. It's not a card, it's reality. Sure, Kyrie was injured in '15. But Curry has always been a better player than Kyrie.



OKC has terrible management & ownership. Let me count the ways:

Dumping James Harden for Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, 2 Firsts & 2 Seconds. Harden wanted a max--$60M over 4 years. The Thunder were only willing to offer something between $52M & $55.5M. Harden was 6th Man of the Year and at that point his talent & offensive versatility were clear. And this was just after the Thunder reached the Finals on the efforts of 4 young stars.

Kevin Martin was the most effective piece of that Harden trade, but he was allowed to leave after the next season (to be replaced by Derek Fisher & Reggie Jackson).

Then they traded Reggie Jackson for Enes Kanter & let Thabo Sefolosha walk and hoped to replace them with Dion Waiters.

Finally, before KD walked, they traded Ibaka for Oladipo and a draft pick. The final nail in the coffin.

The message from the front-office has always been consistent: we are not willing to spend to contend, and we are always more focused on future flexibility than on winning now. They had a generational talent in KD, and they were never willing to go all in. Maxing out Harden would have been the right move. Harden, KD, Westbrook & Ibaka would have grown together into their primes.

Kevin Martin was effective with the Thunder as the "right now" consolation prize from the Harden trade. Then they let him go and tried to replace him with an over-the-hill Fisher & unproven youngster Reggie Jackson. When Jackson flourished, they traded him for the awkward fit of Enes Kanter (a trade made out of financial considerations, unquestionably). They also let their defensive stopper walk, who was a great fit with the team.
Did you see the contributions the Cavs got from everyone not named Lebron and Irving?


Let's not sugarcoat things - Draymond was bad. You don't have to argue every point- you gain more creditability when you acknowledge the facts. He hurt your offense, and honestly Games 3,4,5 I didn't see this elite defense you talk of. He played a part in the two/three man boxout of T. Thompson. Okay job well done.


"Sure, Kyrie was injured in '15. But Curry has always been a better player than Kyrie." '
So you brush off the fact that Kyrie was out in '15, but it didn't matter because Curry has always been a better player.
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Old 08-30-2017, 02:58 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,876,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
Did you see the contributions the Cavs got from everyone not named Lebron and Irving?

Let's not sugarcoat things - Draymond was bad. You don't have to argue every point- you gain more creditability when you acknowledge the facts. He hurt your offense, and honestly Games 3,4,5 I didn't see this elite defense you talk of. He played a part in the two/three man boxout of T. Thompson. Okay job well done.

"Sure, Kyrie was injured in '15. But Curry has always been a better player than Kyrie." '
So you brush off the fact that Kyrie was out in '15, but it didn't matter because Curry has always been a better player.
I don't get how you can say that LBJ was better than KD, Kyrie was better than Curry, and Dray/Klay were bad, yet the series was 4-1 with 3 blowouts. It doesn't make any sense.

Draymond had the best DRtg of any player who played significant minutes in the Finals. My eyes saw help defense, box outs, and contested shots.

I recognize that Kyrie was out in '15. That is reality. It is also reality that Curry has always been a better player.
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