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Old 06-27-2017, 05:09 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,209 posts, read 2,825,676 times
Reputation: 4497

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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
John Wall as high as 2!!!!! No.


Great scorer and assist guy- but still a turnover machine and doesn't have the range that others in that group have.
He may not have the range but he definitely has skills other guys just don't have, and it goes WAAAYYY beyond scoring and assists. He ****s all over your boy Kyrie lol...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
James
Wall
George
Horford
Giannis
Millsap
Love
Beal
Lowry
Dragic

Curry
Kawhi
KD
Davis
Harden
Cousins
Marc Gasol
Draymond
Conley
Hayward
I'll give it to you, you're consistent. Consistent with saying Curry is better than KD, consistent with leaving Kyrie off your top ten...abd you're wrong on both counts, by the way! Lol...

You got several other holes too, but like I said at least you're consistent!
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Old 06-27-2017, 08:13 AM
 
2,834 posts, read 1,774,625 times
Reputation: 1243
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
He may not have the range but he definitely has skills other guys just don't have, and it goes WAAAYYY beyond scoring and assists. He ****s all over your boy Kyrie lol...



I'll give it to you, you're consistent. Consistent with saying Curry is better than KD, consistent with leaving Kyrie off your top ten...abd you're wrong on both counts, by the way! Lol...

You got several other holes too, but like I said at least you're consistent!
Sure it does- I counted turnovers as well. You aren't alone with your opinion- John Wall has never impressed me the way others have- probably in part due to the fact- what are some of his moments on the biggest stage(Finals ECF,NBA) or heck even playoffs or mammoth regular season games????


I agree its is
KD Kwahi then Curry. Curry isn't a two way player. KD has uber offensive talent, Kwahi is more versatile than Curry.
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Old 06-27-2017, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,209 posts, read 2,825,676 times
Reputation: 4497
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
Sure it does- I counted turnovers as well. You aren't alone with your opinion- John Wall has never impressed me the way others have- probably in part due to the fact- what are some of his moments on the biggest stage(Finals ECF,NBA) or heck even playoffs or mammoth regular season games????


I agree its is
KD Kwahi then Curry. Curry isn't a two way player. KD has uber offensive talent, Kwahi is more versatile than Curry.
My guy's Curry/Green/Warriors fandom gets outta control with some of the comments he makes hahahahaha. Curry has NEVER, at any point, been a better basketball player than Kevin Durant...like, ever. I'd consider he and Kawhi more interchangeable but advantage slightly in Kawhi's favor...

I get your point on Wall, but player to player, I just find Wall more dynamic, more dominating, more impactful, more consistent. If Wall were with Cleveland and Kyrie with Washington, the Wizards probably aren't even in the playoffs (in the East!). Wall would have forced Golden State to defend the Cavs differently: 1)he'd instantly upgrade the team defense with one-on-one capabilities to guard Curry or Thompson. Kyrie and doing that, and Livingston wouldn't be able to just body Wall the way he does Kyrie...2)he's a rangy and instinctive defender with a knack for defending the passing lanes and is better on and off ball than Kyrie...3)Wall's offensive playmaking is one of the most elite in The League. He creates for others. Kyrie creates for himself and the offense stagnates. Wall would alleviate offensive playmaking for Lebron and create a team that is much more offensively fluid...

Wall also has scoring ability and how much better do you think this guy would be if he got to play with Lebron? This is a no-brainer to me. Kyrie isn't a true #1 and is a cellar-dweller without Lebron. Those big moments Kyrie has had you speak of are directly attributable to his playing with Lebron...

Wall is a true #1, would be a substantial upgrade if he were a #2 to anybody over Kyrie, and had his team knocking on the ECF two years ago were it not for him breaking his hand. Had them back there this year but this Wizards team was emotionally immature...

Kyrie is a Top 4 player in The East and a Top 12 player overall. There is only one player in The East better than John Wall and he's a Top 7-10 player in the game, easy. I don't even know why anyone would take Kyrie unless you specifically value volume scoring over Wall's skillset...
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Old 06-27-2017, 10:29 AM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,873,763 times
Reputation: 2263
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
He may not have the range but he definitely has skills other guys just don't have, and it goes WAAAYYY beyond scoring and assists. He ****s all over your boy Kyrie lol...

I'll give it to you, you're consistent. Consistent with saying Curry is better than KD, consistent with leaving Kyrie off your top ten...abd you're wrong on both counts, by the way! Lol...

You got several other holes too, but like I said at least you're consistent!
I think Curry is the best player in the NBA.

Four shooting splits to illustrate:

1) .537/.375/.875 with a .594 efg & TS .651
2) .503/.391/.873 with a .560 efg & TS .635

3) .556/.442/.893 with a .627 eftg & TS .683
4) .460/.344/.810 with a .511 efg & TS .570

This is the Curry effect. The numbers?

1) KD's shooting splits with the Warriors this season.
2) KD's shooting splits in his MVP season with the Thunder.
3) KD's shooting splits with the Warriors this playoffs--when the D gets tough.
4) KD's shooting splits in the playoffs his MVP season with the Thunder.

Like everyone else in Golden State, KD is a better player because he plays with #30. KD had his best season ever this year. And his best playoffs (an even bigger gap than the regular season). It happened because of the attention that Curry draws from opposing defenses. Who was facing double-teams all Finals? It wasn't LBJ; it wasn't KD; it was Curry and it was happening 35 feet from the basket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
Sure it does- I counted turnovers as well. You aren't alone with your opinion- John Wall has never impressed me the way others have- probably in part due to the fact- what are some of his moments on the biggest stage(Finals ECF,NBA) or heck even playoffs or mammoth regular season games????

I agree its is
KD Kwahi then Curry. Curry isn't a two way player. KD has uber offensive talent, Kwahi is more versatile than Curry.
Curry is a plus defender. The numbers consistently show it, as does the eye test. He's not an elite defender, but he is a good one. Curry is the best offensive player and it's not close. He is the only one of the 3 who can run an elite offense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
My guy's Curry/Green/Warriors fandom gets outta control with some of the comments he makes hahahahaha. Curry has NEVER, at any point, been a better basketball player than Kevin Durant...like, ever. I'd consider he and Kawhi more interchangeable but advantage slightly in Kawhi's favor...

I get your point on Wall, but player to player, I just find Wall more dynamic, more dominating, more impactful, more consistent. If Wall were with Cleveland and Kyrie with Washington, the Wizards probably aren't even in the playoffs (in the East!). Wall would have forced Golden State to defend the Cavs differently: 1)he'd instantly upgrade the team defense with one-on-one capabilities to guard Curry or Thompson. Kyrie and doing that, and Livingston wouldn't be able to just body Wall the way he does Kyrie...2)he's a rangy and instinctive defender with a knack for defending the passing lanes and is better on and off ball than Kyrie...3)Wall's offensive playmaking is one of the most elite in The League. He creates for others. Kyrie creates for himself and the offense stagnates. Wall would alleviate offensive playmaking for Lebron and create a team that is much more offensively fluid...

Wall also has scoring ability and how much better do you think this guy would be if he got to play with Lebron? This is a no-brainer to me. Kyrie isn't a true #1 and is a cellar-dweller without Lebron. Those big moments Kyrie has had you speak of are directly attributable to his playing with Lebron...

Wall is a true #1, would be a substantial upgrade if he were a #2 to anybody over Kyrie, and had his team knocking on the ECF two years ago were it not for him breaking his hand. Had them back there this year but this Wizards team was emotionally immature...

Kyrie is a Top 4 player in The East and a Top 12 player overall. There is only one player in The East better than John Wall and he's a Top 7-10 player in the game, easy. I don't even know why anyone would take Kyrie unless you specifically value volume scoring over Wall's skillset...
Kyrie is a top 5 shooting guard in the NBA, but it's the most fungible role in the league. He's a great ISO scorer, but that is the least efficient offense you can run--and it will cause other players to stand around and ball watch rather than keep playing. He probably gets on my top 15 in the East, but not my top 10.

I can't agree more on your comparison of Wall & Kyrie. Wall is a true PG, and a top flight defender for the position. With Wall, the Cavs could actually sit LeBron without the offense collapsing. Kyrie will never be the best player on a championship team. He can be the most exciting player on a championship team.

The Wiz can't sit Wall in the same way that the Cavs can't sit James.
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Old 06-27-2017, 10:53 AM
 
2,834 posts, read 1,774,625 times
Reputation: 1243
Everyone brings up Wall does this Wall does that - Wall elevates his team. His (TEAM) first two season he did no better than Kyrie did his first couple years in the league. We all give Wall credit but don't offer the same to Kyrie and even at times downplay his accomplishment (although hard to if you dive into the numbers) because he plays alongside Lebron. Wall had a pass last year with the injuries around him- they ended up being 10th in the Eastern conference. This year with everyone on deck he can't make the ECF and bows out pretty terribly I might add.
I think he's somewhere between all the glowing reviews here and my negative (in comparison with other greats) attitude on his abilities.

I will give you...
Wall is better defender...he has more assists and creates more for teammates- turns the ball over as well- granted being unbiased probably more of function of his role although 4 a game- that's significant.


I guess it is more in what you want.... do you want a Lambo or Aston Martin?


I don't know, but I'll take a 40% three ball shooter and a guy that finishes at the rim (arguably the best in the league) all day. and throw in a guy that will step up and shoot a game winner.


I have nothing for Curry...say what you want but he's not a good defender. Steal/loose ball collector absolutely. He is the WEAK spot with the GS defense.
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Old 06-27-2017, 04:41 PM
 
1,564 posts, read 1,123,064 times
Reputation: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
I think Curry is the best player in the NBA.

Four shooting splits to illustrate:

1) .537/.375/.875 with a .594 efg & TS .651
2) .503/.391/.873 with a .560 efg & TS .635

3) .556/.442/.893 with a .627 eftg & TS .683
4) .460/.344/.810 with a .511 efg & TS .570

This is the Curry effect. The numbers?

1) KD's shooting splits with the Warriors this season.
2) KD's shooting splits in his MVP season with the Thunder.
3) KD's shooting splits with the Warriors this playoffs--when the D gets tough.
4) KD's shooting splits in the playoffs his MVP season with the Thunder.

Like everyone else in Golden State, KD is a better player because he plays with #30. KD had his best season ever this year. And his best playoffs (an even bigger gap than the regular season). It happened because of the attention that Curry draws from opposing defenses. Who was facing double-teams all Finals? It wasn't LBJ; it wasn't KD; it was Curry and it was happening 35 feet from the basket.



Curry is a plus defender. The numbers consistently show it, as does the eye test. He's not an elite defender, but he is a good one. Curry is the best offensive player and it's not close. He is the only one of the 3 who can run an elite offense.



Kyrie is a top 5 shooting guard in the NBA, but it's the most fungible role in the league. He's a great ISO scorer, but that is the least efficient offense you can run--and it will cause other players to stand around and ball watch rather than keep playing. He probably gets on my top 15 in the East, but not my top 10.

I can't agree more on your comparison of Wall & Kyrie. Wall is a true PG, and a top flight defender for the position. With Wall, the Cavs could actually sit LeBron without the offense collapsing. Kyrie will never be the best player on a championship team. He can be the most exciting player on a championship team.

The Wiz can't sit Wall in the same way that the Cavs can't sit James.
Thank you
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Old 06-27-2017, 04:50 PM
 
1,564 posts, read 1,123,064 times
Reputation: 500
One of the biggest things that makes a player better than the other is MENTALITY ! One player can be taller, stronger and faster but it's nothing without the right MENTALITY.

This has been Curry's league since 15 - 17 present

11 - 15 was the LeBron + Kd era with a strong argument for Kwahi
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Old 07-11-2017, 01:22 AM
 
47 posts, read 22,509 times
Reputation: 44
1. Lebron James
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo
3. Kyrie Irving
4. Isiah Thomas
5. Kristaps Porzingis
6. John Wall
7. Demar Derozan
8. Carmelo Anthony
9. Gordon Hayward
10.Kemba Walker... thats the east for you.

Top 10 in the West

1. Kevin Durant He is the best player in the NBA
2. Steph Curry
3. Kawhi Leonard
4. Russell Westbrook
5. Anthony Davis
6. Klay Thompson
7. James Harden
8. Damian Lillard
9. Karl-Anthony Towns
10.Paul George
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Old 07-11-2017, 01:26 AM
 
47 posts, read 22,509 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
My guy's Curry/Green/Warriors fandom gets outta control with some of the comments he makes hahahahaha. Curry has NEVER, at any point, been a better basketball player than Kevin Durant...like, ever. I'd consider he and Kawhi more interchangeable but advantage slightly in Kawhi's favor...

I get your point on Wall, but player to player, I just find Wall more dynamic, more dominating, more impactful, more consistent. If Wall were with Cleveland and Kyrie with Washington, the Wizards probably aren't even in the playoffs (in the East!). Wall would have forced Golden State to defend the Cavs differently: 1)he'd instantly upgrade the team defense with one-on-one capabilities to guard Curry or Thompson. Kyrie and doing that, and Livingston wouldn't be able to just body Wall the way he does Kyrie...2)he's a rangy and instinctive defender with a knack for defending the passing lanes and is better on and off ball than Kyrie...3)Wall's offensive playmaking is one of the most elite in The League. He creates for others. Kyrie creates for himself and the offense stagnates. Wall would alleviate offensive playmaking for Lebron and create a team that is much more offensively fluid...

Wall also has scoring ability and how much better do you think this guy would be if he got to play with Lebron? This is a no-brainer to me. Kyrie isn't a true #1 and is a cellar-dweller without Lebron. Those big moments Kyrie has had you speak of are directly attributable to his playing with Lebron...

Wall is a true #1, would be a substantial upgrade if he were a #2 to anybody over Kyrie, and had his team knocking on the ECF two years ago were it not for him breaking his hand. Had them back there this year but this Wizards team was emotionally immature...

Kyrie is a Top 4 player in The East and a Top 12 player overall. There is only one player in The East better than John Wall and he's a Top 7-10 player in the game, easy. I don't even know why anyone would take Kyrie unless you specifically value volume scoring over Wall's skillset...
How can you elevate Wall after his goose egg in game 7 final minutes? What have you done for me lately....
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Old 07-12-2017, 11:56 AM
 
11,679 posts, read 7,043,561 times
Reputation: 6387
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuietstormP View Post
1. Lebron James
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo
3. Kyrie Irving
4. Isiah Thomas
5. Kristaps Porzingis
6. John Wall
7. Demar Derozan
8. Carmelo Anthony
9. Gordon Hayward
10.Kemba Walker... thats the east for you.

Top 10 in the West

1. Kevin Durant He is the best player in the NBA
2. Steph Curry
3. Kawhi Leonard
4. Russell Westbrook
5. Anthony Davis
6. Klay Thompson
7. James Harden
8. Damian Lillard
9. Karl-Anthony Towns
10.Paul George
You could argue that your #10 in the west would be #2 in the east. Heck, Chris Paul or Cousins could be #2 in the east.
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