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Old 07-28-2017, 08:54 AM
 
1,564 posts, read 1,123,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
I guess these type of comparisons are going to permeate this thread. No player since Jordan has impacted the game and made themselves matter as much as James. Even though I can't stand him, I'd put him in the top three behind Jordan and Kareem (Kareem for longevity) as the best players ever.
Iverson didn't impact and influence this new generation ?

He's basically a 5'11 LeBron without the teaming up with 2 to 3 Superstars in his prime.

Shaq + Kobe impact are still felt today.Most dominant big man probably ever with the 2nd greatest 2 guard ever.

Now LeBron is great but to rank him #3 is disrespect to the game.

But i respect everyone's opinion. Just tell me what has he done to rank #3 and what year boosted him up so high ?

Like I told another poster, I remember fans ranking him over Kobe and that was in 2010 and than in 2012 some say he was better than Jordan with only 1 ring. Do rings not matter anymore ?

I mean we are in the stat lover's era where padding stats seem to be the qualification of who's the best player.

James Harden,Russell Westbrook are great examples

I think it's the social media era that plays a big part today.
Curry is already being called a top 10 all time player and with 1 more ring he's tied with LeBron already.

Surely he'll retire with more rings than LeBron so would Curry rank over LeBron or do you guys not factor in title's won ?

If it's about Lebron being an all around great player than why isn't Oscar Robertson the Goat ?

Many of you don't know the numbers Oscar put up so which one is it ? Stats or title's

If it's Stats than Wilt is easily the GOAT

If it's titles + stats and accomplisments than Lebron isn't even in the top 5

 
Old 07-28-2017, 09:11 AM
 
2,836 posts, read 1,776,314 times
Reputation: 1243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobe25 View Post
Like ive been saying since 2015,This is now Curry's league !!

KD looks great because he joined Curry team.
KD & WB used to get beat down by Curry & Klay so in my opinion this is still the Curry era until at least 2021

LeBron had it from about 2011 - 2015/16
Curry's League!!!!!!!! HA!


Stop this nonsense.
 
Old 07-28-2017, 09:19 AM
 
2,836 posts, read 1,776,314 times
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[quote=rigas;48993146]Andddd back on topic






20 teams have inquired on Irving with several making offers.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...r-Kyrie-Irving[/quote


Thank you for the post.

20 teams seems about right. If you are a contender for a title and have all your pieces in place (GS,Houston) I don't think you are throwing yourself in the mix.


If you have the dynamic scorer/PG probably not either. Few more teams.


If you are rebuilding and don't see Kyrie as a viable option to rebuild not in it. Few more teams.


Everyone else should and will be in on it.


So again Melo and picks - aint gonna cut it.
Aldridge and a few other veteran pieces- nope.


Cavs have leverage- they can keep him. The National Media wants to assume its scorched earth in Cleveland. And again, they are no stranger to drama under Gilbert. The circus can and will continue on unless/until a good deal opens up.
 
Old 07-28-2017, 09:32 AM
 
51,917 posts, read 41,791,093 times
Reputation: 32388
[quote=eastcoastbias;48993613]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
Andddd back on topic






20 teams have inquired on Irving with several making offers.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...r-Kyrie-Irving[/quote


Thank you for the post.

20 teams seems about right. If you are a contender for a title and have all your pieces in place (GS,Houston) I don't think you are throwing yourself in the mix.


If you have the dynamic scorer/PG probably not either. Few more teams.


If you are rebuilding and don't see Kyrie as a viable option to rebuild not in it. Few more teams.


Everyone else should and will be in on it.


So again Melo and picks - aint gonna cut it.
Aldridge and a few other veteran pieces- nope.


Cavs have leverage- they can keep him. The National Media wants to assume its scorched earth in Cleveland. And again, they are no stranger to drama under Gilbert. The circus can and will continue on unless/until a good deal opens up.
Good post and thanks for dragging this thread back on topic.
 
Old 07-28-2017, 10:35 AM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,196,086 times
Reputation: 1982
[quote=eastcoastbias;48993613]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
Andddd back on topic






20 teams have inquired on Irving with several making offers.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...r-Kyrie-Irving[/quote


Thank you for the post.

20 teams seems about right. If you are a contender for a title and have all your pieces in place (GS,Houston) I don't think you are throwing yourself in the mix.


If you have the dynamic scorer/PG probably not either. Few more teams.


If you are rebuilding and don't see Kyrie as a viable option to rebuild not in it. Few more teams.


Everyone else should and will be in on it.


So again Melo and picks - aint gonna cut it.
Aldridge and a few other veteran pieces- nope.


Cavs have leverage- they can keep him. The National Media wants to assume its scorched earth in Cleveland. And again, they are no stranger to drama under Gilbert. The circus can and will continue on unless/until a good deal opens up.
i cant speak to any other teams, as i am only interested in what the spurs might offer.
ive head several different scenarios though

aldridge straight up, which works on $$$ but leaves the spurs without any bigs really. (pau, 2 d-leaguers and bertans who is a 6'11 SF really) it would also leave the cavs with redundancy at the PF spot with love and aldridge.

ive heard aldridge, green, murrey and a pick or 2 for irving and tompson.
this isnt a terrible trade either way really. green would be a perfect fit and is a good friend of lebron. murrey is a young PG with a ton of upside and is a great defender (hes also done a good bit of work with lebron and i believe is represented by lebrons guy) this leaves the redundancy at PF though, and the cavs would look to send love away (as they already are) this is IMO the most ideal situation between the 2 teams
another option ive seen is
irving and frye for parker, white, and green and a pick or 2.
this will never happen as the spurs would never send tony out like that.
it would give the cavs a talented young PG, a potential champion vet presence, and an all defense SG. or they could waive parker and clear up that 15+ mil cap room. plus his contract ends this season.

ive seen other options but cant remember details off hand.
 
Old 07-28-2017, 10:45 AM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,874,215 times
Reputation: 2263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
KD is the best player on that team and also outplayed Curry the year before in the WCF but didn't quite have the supporting cast.

*points at who got the 2017 finals MVP trophy*
LOL. Nope. Curry has been the best player on the best team for 3 years running. KD had his best year ever because he got to play with Curry. You can quantify Curry's impact on his teammates, but just take one stat to explain: this year, Curry had the first season in the history of the NBA with a +/- over +1000. It had never happened before, but it has now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobe25 View Post
He's the best player because of the attention & impact Curry attracts.

Curry didn't need KD to win 73 games or win a ring but KD needed Curry,See the difference ?

It's like having 2 players that can avg 27 - 30 ppg in the same army,it's rare but it does happen sometimes.

Wade Lebron
Carmelo x Iverson
Carter x McGrady
Curry x Durant
Westbrook x Durant
Shaq x Kobe

Those are all players with abilities to avg 27 - 30 ppg
When Curry's off the floor, the Warriors play like a .500 team. When he is on the floor, they play like the greatest team ever assembled.

[quote=eastcoastbias;48993613]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
Andddd back on topic

20 teams have inquired on Irving with several making offers.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...r-Kyrie-Irving

Thank you for the post.

20 teams seems about right. If you are a contender for a title and have all your pieces in place (GS,Houston) I don't think you are throwing yourself in the mix.

If you have the dynamic scorer/PG probably not either. Few more teams.

If you are rebuilding and don't see Kyrie as a viable option to rebuild not in it. Few more teams.

Everyone else should and will be in on it.

So again Melo and picks - aint gonna cut it.
Aldridge and a few other veteran pieces- nope.

Cavs have leverage- they can keep him. The National Media wants to assume its scorched earth in Cleveland. And again, they are no stranger to drama under Gilbert. The circus can and will continue on unless/until a good deal opens up.
The Cavs have to move him. They need time to integrate whoever they get back, and it looks like a terrible idea to enter the season with this drama/potential chemistry problem. The Celtics got a lot better this offseason, and the Cavs are actually going to have to work to get back to the Finals.

I think Melo would be a terrible addition, but could happen. Aldridge would be a nice piece, but I don't think he is optimal.

I like: Waiters & Winslow, Bledsoe & a pick, Middleton & filler, or Beverly & Dekker.
 
Old 07-28-2017, 11:22 AM
 
2,836 posts, read 1,776,314 times
Reputation: 1243
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
LOL. Nope. Curry has been the best player on the best team for 3 years running. KD had his best year ever because he got to play with Curry. You can quantify Curry's impact on his teammates, but just take one stat to explain: this year, Curry had the first season in the history of the NBA with a +/- over +1000. It had never happened before, but it has now.



When Curry's off the floor, the Warriors play like a .500 team. When he is on the floor, they play like the greatest team ever assembled.




They need time to integrate whoever they get back, and it looks like a terrible idea to enter the season with this drama/potential chemistry problem. The Celtics got a lot better this offseason, and the Cavs are actually going to have to work to get back to the Finals.

I think Melo would be a terrible addition, but could happen. Aldridge would be a nice piece, but I don't think he is optimal.

I like: Waiters & Winslow, Bledsoe & a pick, Middleton & filler, or Beverly & Dekker.
[quote]


Simply No. Curry has not been the best player on the best team- the mantle belonged to Durant this past season. In 2016- He was outplayed by Kyrie who was the second best player on the best team. He was targeted on the defensive end- picked on actually- picked on so badly he fouled out in one game and threw his mouth piece and his wife took to twitter to defend his honor.


Now having gotten that out of the way, Curry+Durant is lethal, without Durant you can get away with trapping Curry and doubling from 35 feet out- now you do that and Durant has space. The Warriors didn't need Klay because of Durant, and really Klay was pretty awful on both ends (Kyrie got his and Klay had a few moments but he had more back iron moments.), Draymond was very average as well when he stayed out of foul trouble. He got credit for neutralizing T Thompson rebounding ability- I saw it more as a well executed game plan and a team effort. My point to all this is Durant skills are ideal for the attention you need at Curry from 35+ feet out, but let's be honest this was Durant's year- and I'm Cavs fan.


The Cavs don't have to move irving. Forcing a less than ideal move sets the franchise back 5-10 years. I'll sign up for friction over that and it appears thankfully so will the Cavs management.


Waiters and Winslow is just plain awful- both don't shoot well, and while one plays defense well the other doesn't try on that end.


The Cavs don't care to have Love- whose skillset fits decently with Lebron. Aldridge isn't a catch and shoot three point artist that Love is and quite frankly doesn't have or hasn't shown recently any other skill that makes him desireable enough to deal a 25 year old all star for.
Bledsoe is a good piece but that alone won't get it done.
 
Old 07-28-2017, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC
3,848 posts, read 3,969,978 times
Reputation: 6494
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
LOL. Nope. Curry has been the best player on the best team for 3 years running. KD had his best year ever because he got to play with Curry. You can quantify Curry's impact on his teammates, but just take one stat to explain: this year, Curry had the first season in the history of the NBA with a +/- over +1000. It had never happened before, but it has now.


When Curry's off the floor, the Warriors play like a .500 team. When he is on the floor, they play like the greatest team ever assembled.
To me Curry was the game-changer, he reinvented what it took to win in the NBA with his deep 3 point shooting.

Draymond Green was the catalyst, allowing Curry and Clay Thompson's shooting to win a championship, not just 50 games in the regular season. He added organization, brains and layers of defense.

Durant was the luxury package, just added on top of a proven championship squad.

Who's actually the best? Really hard to say but Curry and Green deserve way more respect for what they've done for the Warriors. They built it, Durant just came on board rather than digging deep and trying to bring the 4th or 5th best team in the world (OKC) to the best.

I actually think Draymond (especially deep in the playoffs) is the one they can least afford to lose.
 
Old 07-28-2017, 11:33 AM
 
2,836 posts, read 1,776,314 times
Reputation: 1243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back to NE View Post
To me Curry was the game-changer, he reinvented what it took to win in the NBA with his deep 3 point shooting.

Draymond Green was the catalyst, allowing Curry and Clay Thompson's shooting to win a championship, not just 50 games in the regular season. He added organization, brains and layers of defense.

Durant was the luxury package, just added on top of a proven championship squad.

Who's actually the best? Really hard to say but Curry and Green deserve way more respect for what they've done for the Warriors. They built it, Durant just came on board rather than digging deep and trying to bring the 4th or 5th best team in the world (OKC) to the best.

I actually think Draymond (especially deep in the playoffs) is the one they can least afford to lose.
What killed the Cavs was the trap out near center court on Curry and Durant killing it (putting the ball on the floor and getting to hoop, or making the shot, or making the pass) after the trap was beaten.


Klay couldn't be the guy that Durant was, neither could Draymond, and a few of the bench pieces flashed but they didn't consistently perform from that aspect.


I guess I'm in the minority thinking that Draymond wasn't very good this Finals.
 
Old 07-28-2017, 12:00 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,874,215 times
Reputation: 2263
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
Simply No. Curry has not been the best player on the best team- the mantle belonged to Durant this past season. In 2016- He was outplayed by Kyrie who was the second best player on the best team. He was targeted on the defensive end- picked on actually- picked on so badly he fouled out in one game and threw his mouth piece and his wife took to twitter to defend his honor.

Now having gotten that out of the way, Curry+Durant is lethal, without Durant you can get away with trapping Curry and doubling from 35 feet out- now you do that and Durant has space. The Warriors didn't need Klay because of Durant, and really Klay was pretty awful on both ends (Kyrie got his and Klay had a few moments but he had more back iron moments.), Draymond was very average as well when he stayed out of foul trouble. He got credit for neutralizing T Thompson rebounding ability- I saw it more as a well executed game plan and a team effort. My point to all this is Durant skills are ideal for the attention you need at Curry from 35+ feet out, but let's be honest this was Durant's year- and I'm Cavs fan.

The Cavs don't have to move irving. Forcing a less than ideal move sets the franchise back 5-10 years. I'll sign up for friction over that and it appears thankfully so will the Cavs management.

Waiters and Winslow is just plain awful- both don't shoot well, and while one plays defense well the other doesn't try on that end.

The Cavs don't care to have Love- whose skillset fits decently with Lebron. Aldridge isn't a catch and shoot three point artist that Love is and quite frankly doesn't have or hasn't shown recently any other skill that makes him desireable enough to deal a 25 year old all star for.
Bledsoe is a good piece but that alone won't get it done.
Curry in '16 had maybe the greatest season in NBA history. You are blowing an injury-plagued series out of proportion. Durant was not the Warriors' best player this year. He missed 20 games with injury & the Dubs went on a huge run and started playing the way they are capable when he went out. Curry is still the Warriors' engine & that's more valuable than Durant's potent skill set.

Draymond is the prime outlet for the Curry blitz at 35 feet. He was this year in spite of Durant's availability.

Klay was incredible in the Finals this year. He delivered a First Team All-Defense performance every single game.

Draymond's foul trouble hurt, but he was still excellent in his minutes.

Durant had a great Finals, too.

But Curry made it all go.

On the Kyrie move: he's gone. The only question is for who and when. The Cavs would be nuts to leave this hanging into the start of the season, because it is going to take time for the team to figure out it's new look when he does get moved. The Cavs need to see this as their last opportunity: they need to bring back players who improve them against the Warriors. That means defense & playmaking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
What killed the Cavs was the trap out near center court on Curry and Durant killing it (putting the ball on the floor and getting to hoop, or making the shot, or making the pass) after the trap was beaten.

Klay couldn't be the guy that Durant was, neither could Draymond, and a few of the bench pieces flashed but they didn't consistently perform from that aspect.

I guess I'm in the minority thinking that Draymond wasn't very good this Finals.
The Cavs can't defend the rest of the Warriors 4 on 3. They just can't. Draymond delivered with rebounding, defense, and playmaking. His big downside was unavailability--foul trouble.
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