U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Basketball
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 07-28-2017, 08:05 PM
 
51,917 posts, read 41,791,093 times
Reputation: 32393

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by dallasgoldrush View Post


I'm not a Klay-hater. If he's not Top-15 right now, he's definitely Top-20. He's the best two-guard in the game (actually, since Harden moved to the point full-time, Klay Thompson and Avery Bradley are pretty much the only elite two-guards in the game). And when all is said and done, Curry and Thompson are gonna move into the best and second-best all time shooters slots ahead of Ray Allen and Reggie Miller.

But...

Kyrie's overall scoring repertoire is explosive. When you look at Kyrie's quickness, his handles, his crossover, his craftiness in the lane, his ability to finish at the rim, his mid-range game and his ability to hold his own from deep, you'd be hard-pressed to find a small guard with more ways to score on you. Fwiw, Avery Bradley calls Kyrie the hardest player to guard.

Kyrie's weaknesses are that he's not an elite distributor (although he and LeBron ironically have great chemistry when it comes to finding each other in their preferred spots on the court), and he only plays one side of the floor. Thompson's defense, his size (for a guard), his shooting accuracy and his range combine to make him a better overall player than Kyrie, but if I'm only looking for a player to unleash a one-man scoring assault on someone I'm going with Kyrie.
At least 2-3 Shooting guards made the all-nba team last season ahead of Klay and Avery Bradley and KI weren't there either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NB...389_to_present

Butler, DeRozan and if you want to count him...Harden.

I don't see any factual basis for many of the claims you are making.

 
Old 07-28-2017, 09:51 PM
 
482 posts, read 251,209 times
Reputation: 1196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
At least 2-3 Shooting guards made the all-nba team last season ahead of Klay and Avery Bradley and KI weren't there either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NB...389_to_present

Butler, DeRozan and if you want to count him...Harden.

I don't see any factual basis for many of the claims you are making.
What specific "claims" are you referring to?

I said the league has a limited number of elite two guards, which is true because in today's era players who traditionally would have been two-guards are moving up or down a position. For example, guys like Harden and Damian Lillard play the 1 and Butler usually plays the 3.

I forgot about DeRozan, and yes he's up there, but I think his numbers are inflated from filling in when Kyle Lowry pulls one of his not-too-infrequent disappearing acts. But even throwing DeRozan into the pile, does his one All-NBA team selection make him better than one of the best shooters in league history (Thompson) and a guy who's one of the best perimeter defenders in the league while still giving you 15+ ppg on offense (Bradley)? Uh, no.

That's really beside the point though. I was making a comparison between two players and explaining why, even though Thompson is better overall, Kyrie has the better arsenal as a scorer. What kinds of facts were you looking for to prove that? Kyrie did average 27 ppg on 47/41/94 shooting in the '16 NBA finals, and 29 ppg on 47/42/90 in the '17 NBA finals, so he's shown he can score on the highest level. But even players who don't have a ton of moves can put up huge scoring numbers (ahem, Shaq), so the real determining factor in who has more ways to score is the straight-up eye-test.

Yep.

We know that Klay and Kyrie are both capable of going off for 50 on any given night. Without having seen their games, how in your mind would you picture those points were scored? Klay's 50 is probably going to be a lot of threes and long twos -- many of them coming off of screens, and a lot of pull-up shots off of maybe one or two dribbles. He'll also shoot some free throws and have a few athletic finishes around the basket.

The shot-chart for Kyrie's 50 would more likely look like he just blitzed the opposition from all over the court. He would have some threes and long twos -- not nearly as many as Klay. But he would also likely have a lot more shots he created off his own dribble, more slashes to the basket from every direction, and probably more free throws.

It's easy to confirm that both Klay and Kyrie are capable of scoring at a high level, but there's no stat or All-NBA team selection that determines the total number of scoring moves a player has. So seeing that comes down to being a fan of the game and an amateur scout, just the same as anyone else here.
 
Old 07-29-2017, 05:56 AM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
12,199 posts, read 10,416,173 times
Reputation: 11214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobe25 View Post
Look when your from California things are a little different as a sports fan.

Dodgers may lose but if the Angels win im still a happy camper.

Same thing for basketball, Lakers are forever my team but if they're losing and Golden state is winning of course im gonna root for the California team on top.

Maybe Texas & Florida fans feel the same way but California is a place where you can represent the state as a whole and at the same time still ride for your home city.
Must be an LA thing. Oakland sports fans are never happy when an SF team wins (good thing we share the Warriors), and we don't like teams from LA either. I did root for the Kings back in the day against the Lakers though, even though they had Webber's punk self on the team.
 
Old 07-29-2017, 05:59 AM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
12,199 posts, read 10,416,173 times
Reputation: 11214
Klay is definitely an elite SG in the league, and I can't think of a team who wouldn't want him on their roster. His main drawback is his streaky shooting...40 points one game, 6 the next. So he can't be a team's #1 offensive option with any consistency, but there are few if any guards in the league right now with his two-way prowess.
https://youtu.be/pbbBpfQ4VnQ
 
Old 07-29-2017, 08:24 AM
 
1,564 posts, read 1,123,980 times
Reputation: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
Must be an LA thing. Oakland sports fans are never happy when an SF team wins (good thing we share the Warriors), and we don't like teams from LA either. I did root for the Kings back in the day against the Lakers though, even though they had Webber's punk self on the team.
Not an L.A thing at all. Possibly a So Cal thing because we make sure when we represent California we say we're from Southern California.

Trust me i know about L.A + Frisco rivalry as it's expected in sports and a few other things.2 major u.s cities in the same state is sure to ruffle some feathers.

Im sure Dallas,San Antonio and Houston go at it also but my point is when the home team is out I have no problem rooting for another California team that's winning.

Klay is from the L.A area anyway so like I said it's all California love to me.
 
Old 07-29-2017, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
1,242 posts, read 637,813 times
Reputation: 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobe25 View Post
Look when your from California things are a little different as a sports fan.

Dodgers may lose but if the Angels win im still a happy camper.

Same thing for basketball, Lakers are forever my team but if they're losing and Golden state is winning of course im gonna root for the California team on top.

Maybe Texas & Florida fans feel the same way but California is a place where you can represent the state as a whole and at the same time still ride for your home city.

Sounds like bandwagon jumping to me.
 
Old 07-29-2017, 11:59 AM
 
51,917 posts, read 41,791,093 times
Reputation: 32393
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobe25 View Post
Not an L.A thing at all. Possibly a So Cal thing because we make sure when we represent California we say we're from Southern California.

Trust me i know about L.A + Frisco rivalry as it's expected in sports and a few other things.2 major u.s cities in the same state is sure to ruffle some feathers.

Im sure Dallas,San Antonio and Houston go at it also but my point is when the home team is out I have no problem rooting for another California team that's winning.

Klay is from the L.A area anyway so like I said it's all California love to me.
My buddy from So Cal never bandwagon jumped teams like that though.

I mean, imagine Bears fans jumping ship to the Packers when they were having great years and trying to sell it as "well they're just 200 miles away and it's a midwest thing".

To be a true fan, you have to own the lean years.
 
Old 07-29-2017, 12:01 PM
 
51,917 posts, read 41,791,093 times
Reputation: 32393
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallasgoldrush View Post
What specific "claims" are you referring to?

I said the league has a limited number of elite two guards, which is true because in today's era players who traditionally would have been two-guards are moving up or down a position. For example, guys like Harden and Damian Lillard play the 1 and Butler usually plays the 3.

I forgot about DeRozan, and yes he's up there, but I think his numbers are inflated from filling in when Kyle Lowry pulls one of his not-too-infrequent disappearing acts. But even throwing DeRozan into the pile, does his one All-NBA team selection make him better than one of the best shooters in league history (Thompson) and a guy who's one of the best perimeter defenders in the league while still giving you 15+ ppg on offense (Bradley)? Uh, no.

That's really beside the point though. I was making a comparison between two players and explaining why, even though Thompson is better overall, Kyrie has the better arsenal as a scorer. What kinds of facts were you looking for to prove that? Kyrie did average 27 ppg on 47/41/94 shooting in the '16 NBA finals, and 29 ppg on 47/42/90 in the '17 NBA finals, so he's shown he can score on the highest level. But even players who don't have a ton of moves can put up huge scoring numbers (ahem, Shaq), so the real determining factor in who has more ways to score is the straight-up eye-test.

Yep.

We know that Klay and Kyrie are both capable of going off for 50 on any given night. Without having seen their games, how in your mind would you picture those points were scored? Klay's 50 is probably going to be a lot of threes and long twos -- many of them coming off of screens, and a lot of pull-up shots off of maybe one or two dribbles. He'll also shoot some free throws and have a few athletic finishes around the basket.

The shot-chart for Kyrie's 50 would more likely look like he just blitzed the opposition from all over the court. He would have some threes and long twos -- not nearly as many as Klay. But he would also likely have a lot more shots he created off his own dribble, more slashes to the basket from every direction, and probably more free throws.

It's easy to confirm that both Klay and Kyrie are capable of scoring at a high level, but there's no stat or All-NBA team selection that determines the total number of scoring moves a player has. So seeing that comes down to being a fan of the game and an amateur scout, just the same as anyone else here.
My point was that Klay isn't the best SG in the league right now. We can agree to disagree.

He's a great 2-way player, I just can't rationalize a guy that didn't even make the 3rd team all-nba last year being called the best SG in the league.
 
Old 07-29-2017, 06:03 PM
 
1,564 posts, read 1,123,980 times
Reputation: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by QCongress83216 View Post
Sounds like bandwagon jumping to me.
Nah it's just California pride.....California love.

UCLA,USC,Dodgers,Kings,Angels,49ers,Lakers,Warrior s,etc

If one is knocked off I'll root for the next home team....

Obviously L.A is home but this is a great state with alot of different teams to root for lol

When Lakers play Warriors,im rooting for my boy Lonzo ball and Ingram....

But when Warriors play the Bulls or Knicks,Im rolling with the California team all day....
 
Old 07-29-2017, 09:22 PM
 
13 posts, read 6,812 times
Reputation: 24
Doesn't Kyrie need to be able to hit a shot with Bron on the bench before he can whine about not being alpha dog? Does Kyrie really want to go somewhere like Boston and lose to LeBron every year?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Basketball
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top