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Old 07-22-2017, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,211 posts, read 2,830,037 times
Reputation: 4497

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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
I wonder if Kyrie is tired of everything revolving around Lebron. Lebron's team, Lebron's championship, Lebron's GM decisions, etc. At 25 yrs old, Kyrie has played well enough to have a chance at being "the man" on another team...or at least in a 1a/1b situation with a player that doesn't suck up all the attention. And no, the years before Lebron don't count because he was only 20-22 yrs old. He probably feels that he is/can be a top ~10-12 player in the NBA. You can't really be mad at him for wanting out from under Lebron. It's not like he's just an above average role player - 25/6 on 47/40/90% shooting is pretty elite.
There are about 6 idiot statements in this thread but this one may be the worst...

"The years before Lebron don't count because".....

As if Lebron wasn't once taking teams to playoffs in Year 3 and Finals in Year 4. Do his fist three seasons not count either, what about Jordan's? Or is this a new rule specifically for Kyrie Irving?

Kyrie Irving will never be the #1 on a team that wims a championship. At this point he's a 6-year vet and unless his game matures and diversifies, there is nothing to suggest that he can be the guy, the #1, who can take a team all the way...

He's proven he's an outstanding #2, and I'm not saying he's a scrub. There's some contradiction in his request too, because if he wants to be the man, he ain't gonna be that in either Minnesota or San Antonio. So, what he really is saying is he's worn with the organization being so Lebron-centric and Lebron getting the credit for everything. For that, I can't blame him; it's natural to feel as if you aren't appreciated or someone receives favoritism over you....

To that end, he'd do well to realize that Lebron's 10 years with Cleveland has done everything for that franchise. Lebron is a once in a generation player who changed the trajectory of this franchise in so many ways. Kyrie is a great player, but when you're playing next to Lebron, or '00s Kobe, or '90s Jordan, or '80s Bird, maybe you just should realize the attention isn't going to be centered around you...

I don't fault him for wanting to be the man. Hopefully he's motivated to better his game to be truly elite and an All-Timer. Through six years as it stands now, he's not a Top 10 player (around 11-12) and has loads of evidence, both before and with Lebron, to suggest he's not capable of carrying a team to a championship as that teams best player. I wish him the best and hope Cleveland takes their time and does their due diligence in figuring the best course of action with Kyrie...

As of right now he sounds like a 25-year old having a fit and not realizing how good he's had it. But nobody can fault him for wanting opportunity!

 
Old 07-22-2017, 07:54 AM
 
167 posts, read 76,013 times
Reputation: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
There are about 6 idiot statements in this thread but this one may be the worst...

"The years before Lebron don't count because".....

As if Lebron wasn't once taking teams to playoffs in Year 3 and Finals in Year 4. Do his fist three seasons not count either, what about Jordan's? Or is this a new rule specifically for Kyrie Irving?

Kyrie Irving will never be the #1 on a team that wims a championship. At this point he's a 6-year vet and unless his game matures and diversifies, there is nothing to suggest that he can be the guy, the #1, who can take a team all the way...
The guy said that Kyrie probably feels like he's a top 10-12 player in the league and you call him an idiot and foam all over yourself about Jordan and LeBron.
I'd say the guy wrote a sensible post and you need a hobby.

Kyrie's a much better player now than he was a few years ago, I think it's fair to call him top 10-12 in the league. Plenty of very good players missed the playoffs in their youth, and even in their prime, like Kareem, Kobe, KG just off the top of my head. Kyrie's old teams sucked, and he himself wasn't as good. His best teammate was maybe 35 yo Jamison, or maybe Varejao.
 
Old 07-22-2017, 10:32 AM
 
Location: California
1,191 posts, read 1,286,341 times
Reputation: 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chukcha View Post
Cavs isn't a team, it's an operation centered around one individual to give him good PR, held hostage by his 1-2 year contracts, until he quits to join more talented teammates again. I can't blame Kyrie for wanting to be on a real team like the Spurs.
A bit harsh, but an accurate description of what the Cavs are. LeBron's heavy influence in the front office is probably making Kyrie want out. What seems to be happening right now is Gilbert is striking back against LeBron. He went along with everything LeBron wanted this time last year. He paid everyone LeBron wanted and kept team intact. Even though David Griffin actually wanted to do things differently.

It's LeBron vs Gilbert. And either way what Kyrie wants gets ignored. And he's the one whose under contract for two more years. He's the one who before this gave no indication of wanting to leave.

I don't think Kyrie wants to be the man per se. I think he wants an organization built around the team and not one guy who dictates everything.
 
Old 07-22-2017, 11:46 AM
 
4,492 posts, read 3,156,199 times
Reputation: 4293
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliDude1 View Post
A bit harsh, but an accurate description of what the Cavs are. LeBron's heavy influence in the front office is probably making Kyrie want out. What seems to be happening right now is Gilbert is striking back against LeBron. He went along with everything LeBron wanted this time last year. He paid everyone LeBron wanted and kept team intact. Even though David Griffin actually wanted to do things differently.

It's LeBron vs Gilbert. And either way what Kyrie wants gets ignored. And he's the one whose under contract for two more years. He's the one who before this gave no indication of wanting to leave.

I don't think Kyrie wants to be the man per se. I think he wants an organization built around the team and not one guy who dictates everything.

This is a game that's just hard to play. Before Lebron, Cleveland was going nowhere. After Lebron, Cleveland was going nowhere. Lebron comes back and they're in the Finals the next 3 years and they get a chip out of it (albeit some luck). I don't disagree that Lebron makes the water murkier, although Lebron has taken this team to lengths it hadn't seen since Brad Daughtery, Mark Price, and Craig Ehlo. We may not like the stipulations of how the Cavs rose back to stardom, but the Lebron effect is undeniable.


Honestly, I don't even think this is so much about Lebron. This is more about every team trying to find a way to beat the Warriors. However, the Warriors were way ahead of the game and basically did something pretty much unheard of. That is draft (3) guys that ended up being elite talents and all have been able to play well together. You also ended up with some very smart vets in Livingston and Iggy. Iggy couldn't be the guy who carried a team, but there was no doubting his talent.


You have teams trying to replicate the last 10 years of the Warriors (since We Believe era), at a much quicker pace, and dethrone them. The Warriors are that type of situation where you literally catch lightning in a bottle. Very rare to happen and very rare to duplicate.
 
Old 07-22-2017, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee
915 posts, read 1,662,109 times
Reputation: 1549
It's hard being in Lebron's shadow. After every big loss Lebron falls into his passive aggressive tone, blaming everyone around him and deflects the responsibility away from himself. I think this wears on a guy like Kyrie. I can see after a few years of this it would become to much to handle. A change of location and team would probably do him well.. Being around a guy like Lebron has a shelf life of 3 years or so.

Last edited by Allan Trafton; 07-22-2017 at 12:49 PM..
 
Old 07-22-2017, 12:50 PM
 
11,679 posts, read 7,048,359 times
Reputation: 6387
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
There are about 6 idiot statements in this thread but this one may be the worst...

"The years before Lebron don't count because".....

As if Lebron wasn't once taking teams to playoffs in Year 3 and Finals in Year 4. Do his fist three seasons not count either, what about Jordan's? Or is this a new rule specifically for Kyrie Irving?

Kyrie Irving will never be the #1 on a team that wims a championship. At this point he's a 6-year vet and unless his game matures and diversifies, there is nothing to suggest that he can be the guy, the #1, who can take a team all the way...

He's proven he's an outstanding #2, and I'm not saying he's a scrub. There's some contradiction in his request too, because if he wants to be the man, he ain't gonna be that in either Minnesota or San Antonio. So, what he really is saying is he's worn with the organization being so Lebron-centric and Lebron getting the credit for everything. For that, I can't blame him; it's natural to feel as if you aren't appreciated or someone receives favoritism over you....

To that end, he'd do well to realize that Lebron's 10 years with Cleveland has done everything for that franchise. Lebron is a once in a generation player who changed the trajectory of this franchise in so many ways. Kyrie is a great player, but when you're playing next to Lebron, or '00s Kobe, or '90s Jordan, or '80s Bird, maybe you just should realize the attention isn't going to be centered around you...

I don't fault him for wanting to be the man. Hopefully he's motivated to better his game to be truly elite and an All-Timer. Through six years as it stands now, he's not a Top 10 player (around 11-12) and has loads of evidence, both before and with Lebron, to suggest he's not capable of carrying a team to a championship as that teams best player. I wish him the best and hope Cleveland takes their time and does their due diligence in figuring the best course of action with Kyrie...

As of right now he sounds like a 25-year old having a fit and not realizing how good he's had it. But nobody can fault him for wanting opportunity!
What does Lebron's career trajectory have to do with Kyrie?

The vast majority of players aren't playing their best basketball at 20-22. Kyrie has his own destiny and it will never have him in comparisons to Lebron or Jordan, but he does have a chance to be more than a sidekick. He's earned the right to play out the prime years of his career any way he sees fit.

Perhaps opinions like yours are partially what motivates him:

"outstanding #2"
"will never be the #1 on a team that wins a championship"
"Lebron's 10 years have done everything for that franchise"
"he's not a top 10 player"

Maybe he's just not motivated to work as hard in a situation where Lebron gets all the attention/credit and makes all the decisions. Like I said, his play has earned him the right to make any move he desires.

I also think playing with Kwahi would be a lot different than playing with Lebron. The world revolves around Lebron and Lebron likes that - Kwahi is similar to Duncan.
 
Old 07-22-2017, 01:05 PM
 
51,928 posts, read 41,798,494 times
Reputation: 32398
Wow. As many crazy things that have gone on in the last 5 years I've got nothing.

Other than pass the popcorn.
 
Old 07-22-2017, 01:30 PM
 
4,492 posts, read 3,156,199 times
Reputation: 4293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Wow. As many crazy things that have gone on in the last 5 years I've got nothing.

Other than pass the popcorn.

I think the best thing I've read on this trade is for Cleveland to do nothing. You have to take a step back and see what's available on the market that you would maybe have interest in, and there's not a lot. You get a couple of pieces to potentially build around if you move Kyrie, but then you still have the dilemma of Lebron walking next year. The best comment I've read so far is keep Kyrie this year, if Lebron walks after next season, than the Cavs are your team again. If Lebron stays, than we'll try and package you to one of your destination points or get back the most assets that are beneficial to our organization.


Trying to move Kyrie now is pointless. There's no pieces worthwhile to trade for now that everyone has moved or resigned in free agency and you're not going to move Lebron who came back and sent you to 3 straight Finals appearances and brought the city a championship. The NBA is a business at the end of the day, and the Lebron effect is healthy to the Cav's bottom line, even if they're paying into the luxury tax with him. There's all the other perks that Cleveland gets, which is necessary, since the area is not known to be a destination spot for athletes or tourism.


Kyrie is an exceptional talent, but there's a whole other side of basketball that he doesn't understand, and quite honestly he never likely will have to understand. He's likely not dumb enough to blow through all his earnings, so he can drift through life believing whatever he wants to believe. However, for Cleveland, Lebron coming back brought vibrancy back to an area that wasn't there when it was just Kyrie wielding the team.


I'm sure Pippen didn't always like being #2 under Jordan, but would Pippen have any of the success he had today without Jordan? Who's to say. There's a level of skill you pick up playing under a generational player. Those types of players flip the game on its head and changes everyone's mindset on how to play against them. That's how people like Jordan and Lebron elevate people to the next level. You may not like their attitudes or how they handle situations, but these types of people put butts in seats and help with employment. So you do have to cater to them, because they're a household name.
 
Old 07-22-2017, 02:16 PM
 
8,083 posts, read 5,293,582 times
Reputation: 9241

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kptURQPEGI
 
Old 07-22-2017, 08:42 PM
 
47 posts, read 22,540 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan Trafton View Post
It's hard being in Lebron's shadow. After every big loss Lebron falls into his passive aggressive tone, blaming everyone around him and deflects the responsibility away from himself. I think this wears on a guy like Kyrie. I can see after a few years of this it would become to much to handle. A change of location and team would probably do him well.. Being around a guy like Lebron has a shelf life of 3 years or so.


Cleveland should trade Lebron.
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