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Old 07-26-2017, 12:10 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,873,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
Rookie GM -trying to make a splash. I think lots of folks would buy into the drama of trying to win a title and actually having a shot at winning a title- ask Lilliard?

Kyrie is under control for the next two years. He had career year type numbers as a 25 year old and has showcased his talents VERY WELL on the biggest stage the past two seasons.

I don't see how George is the comparison- he has 1 year left on his deal and he's a couple years older. He's showcased his talents chasing a playoff spot the last few seasons. He's supposedly narrowed his choice down to LA after this season- maybe he's true to word with that request.

Boogie??? eh, no.

Having said that, Bledsoe, Jackson and picks isn't too shabby.
The Suns would be crazy to move Bledsoe & Jackson for Irving. Bledsoe & a protected pick--I get it.

The Kings moved Boogie for beans. He's the best player of the three under discussion. George's one year rental is different, but he is the 2nd best player & would have been a great swap for Irving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weezerfan84 View Post
I've never liked Westbrook's game much. He's a volume scorer who pounds the ball; however, he really didn't have another scorer on the court with him, besides Adams. Oladipo wasn't bad, but didn't make the leap that OKC was planning on. Roberson was terrible on one end of the floor, but his defense is needed on the other end of the floor. If they can hide him on offense and he can figure out how to drain 2-3 threes a night, he's likely worth his contract. PG changes things going into the 2017-2018 season. They need 4 guys in their starting unit to consistently put points on the board. I think that will help the ball move more and not have it stuck in Westbrook or PG's hands constantly.

I agree that Cleveland needs to get a worthwhile haul back for KI and I hope that haul has no Carmelo in it. He can score, but they need defense and he's not going to play it this late in his career. Phoenix offers the best package. In a perfect world, a likely interesting trade would involve TT and KI for cherry picked Bledsoe and DeAndre Jordan. If you're going to replace TT, at least replace him with someone who is actually defending the rim and can finish around it, even though he can't shoot free throws.

Phoenix gets KI, Clippers get TT, pick and potential additional player from Phoenix, Cavs get Bledsoe and Jordan. Phoenix would have to give up a pick and likely another player to sweeten the deal for the Clippers. The Cavs could potentially decide to move Shump and/or Frye to Clips as well. I didn't fact check this trade, just thinking out loud in a perfect world, but not so perfect that it's unimaginable.
PG doesn't help the Thunder spread the floor. He's also much less effective without the ball on offense. He offers a lot defensively, and is very capable of creating offense, but I don't see the fit between Westbrook and George working all that well.

Cleveland has to get better defensively. They are in win-now mode, and they need players who fit into the current roster. Beverly & Gallinari would be a nice move. Or Waiters & Winslow. Or Mike Conley (doubt he's on the table, though).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Geek View Post
I keep hearing the talking heads on the radio mention Minnesota as a possible destination. Who do they think Minnesota will give up for Kyrie? I don't see them even entertaining the thought of Wiggins or Towns.
Kyrie said he wants to go to Minnesota. If I were Minnesota, I would be willing to part ways with Teague & Taj Gibson (which would improve Cleveland, IMHO).

 
Old 07-26-2017, 12:15 PM
 
Location: California
1,191 posts, read 1,285,808 times
Reputation: 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
Rookie GM -trying to make a splash. I think lots of folks would buy into the drama of trying to win a title and actually having a shot at winning a title- ask Lilliard?


Kyrie is under control for the next two years. He had career year type numbers as a 25 year old and has showcased his talents VERY WELL on the biggest stage the past two seasons.


I don't see how George is the comparison- he has 1 year left on his deal and he's a couple years older. He's showcased his talents chasing a playoff spot the last few seasons. He's supposedly narrowed his choice down to LA after this season- maybe he's true to word with that request.


Boogie??? eh, no.


Having said that, Bledsoe, Jackson and picks isn't too shabby.
The point is teams aren't getting big hauls for star players anymore. And Kyrie with two years left on his deal is much more valuable to a trade partner than him with only one year. That was the issue with George. Teams didn't want a one year rental. Kyrie's trade value goes down the longer he stays with Cleveland.
 
Old 07-26-2017, 12:17 PM
 
51,887 posts, read 41,774,553 times
Reputation: 32370
MN has a really exciting young nucleus.

Not sure how KI barging in trying to be the "man" would sit with Wiggins, KAT, Butler to be honest.

On paper that trade (Teague\Gibson) might make sense but KI seems to be on a mission to boost his own standing and ego.
 
Old 07-26-2017, 01:00 PM
 
4,490 posts, read 3,154,072 times
Reputation: 4293
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
The Suns would be crazy to move Bledsoe & Jackson for Irving. Bledsoe & a protected pick--I get it.

The Kings moved Boogie for beans. He's the best player of the three under discussion. George's one year rental is different, but he is the 2nd best player & would have been a great swap for Irving.



PG doesn't help the Thunder spread the floor. He's also much less effective without the ball on offense. He offers a lot defensively, and is very capable of creating offense, but I don't see the fit between Westbrook and George working all that well.

Cleveland has to get better defensively. They are in win-now mode, and they need players who fit into the current roster. Beverly & Gallinari would be a nice move. Or Waiters & Winslow. Or Mike Conley (doubt he's on the table, though).



Kyrie said he wants to go to Minnesota. If I were Minnesota, I would be willing to part ways with Teague & Taj Gibson (which would improve Cleveland, IMHO).

I just stated with 4 consistent scorers the ball should move more in the offense. When you have capable scorers on the floor, the defense can't relax on a player for too long. I'm not saying the pairing of PG and Westbrook is ideal, but it's better than the alternative they've already experienced. Westbrook averages a triple double, but get ran out of the arena by Houston.
 
Old 07-26-2017, 01:07 PM
 
Location: California
1,191 posts, read 1,285,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
MN has a really exciting young nucleus.

Not sure how KI barging in trying to be the "man" would sit with Wiggins, KAT, Butler to be honest.

On paper that trade (Teague\Gibson) might make sense but KI seems to be on a mission to boost his own standing and ego.
According to Dave McMenamin, Butler and Towns have been lobbying their front office to make a deal for Kyrie. I think the idea of him wanting to be "the man" is the wrong read. This seems more about wanting to be away from LeBron and his over-sized influence.
 
Old 07-26-2017, 01:39 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,873,763 times
Reputation: 2263
Quote:
Originally Posted by weezerfan84 View Post
I just stated with 4 consistent scorers the ball should move more in the offense. When you have capable scorers on the floor, the defense can't relax on a player for too long. I'm not saying the pairing of PG and Westbrook is ideal, but it's better than the alternative they've already experienced. Westbrook averages a triple double, but get ran out of the arena by Houston.
Who are these 4 consistent scorers? They've got 3 on the roster, 2 of whom don't play a lick of defense. Those same two can't spread the floor because they are not shooters. Paul George generates a lot of his offense off of the dribble. He's not a huge off the ball threat experienced at using screens/positioning to generate spot-up offense. The problem is that Westbrook is not a huge off the ball threat, either.

The Thunder were not good defensively, in spite of having defensively talented players (Adams, Gibson, Roberson). Westbrook was a problem on the defensive end.

Harden & Houston were better than Westbrook & OKC. That was not surprising.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliDude1 View Post
According to Dave McMenamin, Butler and Towns have been lobbying their front office to make a deal for Kyrie. I think the idea of him wanting to be "the man" is the wrong read. This seems more about wanting to be away from LeBron and his over-sized influence.
He also probably sees the writing on the wall: LBJ is leaving next year. The Cavs will be a steaming mess without him, and the ownership/management is pretty awful & the market is not a lucrative one. He's giving up NBA contract money, but he's probably interested in generating greater endorsement opportunities either by "being the man" or by going to a bigger market.
 
Old 07-26-2017, 01:49 PM
 
2,834 posts, read 1,774,625 times
Reputation: 1243
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliDude1 View Post
The point is teams aren't getting big hauls for star players anymore. And Kyrie with two years left on his deal is much more valuable to a trade partner than him with only one year. That was the issue with George. Teams didn't want a one year rental. Kyrie's trade value goes down the longer he stays with Cleveland.
His value would be greater at the trade deadline. 1) A team could include players that they can't at this point 2) A team could at that point better assess where they are and assess rookies and how they fit and project how they will fit. I don't envision a GS or SAS or the bottom feeders getting involved but anyone in the playoff hunt that may need to disrupt things to get over the hump- I'm almost certain would be in the market for a dynamic scorer. The team receiving Kyrie could have potentially two playoff runs with him during the prime of his career. Or one and flip him in the offseason and get back any assets they would potentially lose.


The only drawback (it would be a big one IMO) from Clevelands POV at that point (trade at the deadline)would be working in the pieces they get back and get a rotation going headed into the playoffs.
 
Old 07-26-2017, 01:52 PM
 
2,834 posts, read 1,774,625 times
Reputation: 1243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
MN has a really exciting young nucleus.

Not sure how KI barging in trying to be the "man" would sit with Wiggins, KAT, Butler to be honest.

On paper that trade (Teague\Gibson) might make sense but KI seems to be on a mission to boost his own standing and ego.
I like both guys (Teague/Gibson)- Teague does nothing in GS matchup, but Gibson would be a really nice piece. But I see a young or youngish star in the making being a focal point of any deal. I'm also assuming this deal doesn't take place before the season starts.
 
Old 07-26-2017, 01:56 PM
 
4,490 posts, read 3,154,072 times
Reputation: 4293
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Who are these 4 consistent scorers? They've got 3 on the roster, 2 of whom don't play a lick of defense. Those same two can't spread the floor because they are not shooters. Paul George generates a lot of his offense off of the dribble. He's not a huge off the ball threat experienced at using screens/positioning to generate spot-up offense. The problem is that Westbrook is not a huge off the ball threat, either.

The Thunder were not good defensively, in spite of having defensively talented players (Adams, Gibson, Roberson). Westbrook was a problem on the defensive end.

Harden & Houston were better than Westbrook & OKC. That was not surprising.



He also probably sees the writing on the wall: LBJ is leaving next year. The Cavs will be a steaming mess without him, and the ownership/management is pretty awful & the market is not a lucrative one. He's giving up NBA contract money, but he's probably interested in generating greater endorsement opportunities either by "being the man" or by going to a bigger market.

Spread the floor was the wrong analogy. They need 4 scorers who can actually score points. Nevermind if they spread the floor, but can they put the ball in the hoop. That's Westbrook, PG, Adams, and Roberson if he can find his shot.
 
Old 07-26-2017, 02:16 PM
 
51,887 posts, read 41,774,553 times
Reputation: 32370
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliDude1 View Post
According to Dave McMenamin, Butler and Towns have been lobbying their front office to make a deal for Kyrie. I think the idea of him wanting to be "the man" is the wrong read. This seems more about wanting to be away from LeBron and his over-sized influence.
Hmmmm, great post, thanks for sharing.

So they'd play Wiggins-KI-Butler at the guard and SF positions, KAT and whomever at the bigs....that would be an exciting young team indeed.

If they can deal for KI that would put pressure on GS in a few years as they mesh and mature a bit more.
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