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Old 08-25-2017, 01:45 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,873,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliRestoration View Post
I like Iggy a lot, he is an extremely talented wing/perimeter defender, but how many seasons was he ever a teams #1 option? Tony Allen is also a great perimeter defender, but I don't see anyone trying to compare him to Kobe. Iggy was the 76ers top option for MAYBE 3-4 seasons and then the remainder of his career he carved out a niche as a bench/6th man which, no disrespect, is great for him, but I don't think anyone in the Top 20 SF all-time should be just a role player.

Scottie or Paul Pierce were never role playing, coming off the bench guys for a large portion of their careers like Iggy.
Iguodala comes off of the bench for lineup reasons, not talent reasons. He's an elite defender, and a versatile offensive player. He was the best player on the Nuggets playoff squad, plus on those 76ers teams once AI retired. He was always a better player than Harrison Barnes, but Barnes was with the starting unit for rotation purposes--so that Iguodala could anchor the team when Curry got rest. He's not a better player than KD, but not many people are. And he still plays a critical role, including taking on the toughest wing defensive assignments (who did the Warriors go to down the stretch against LBJ? Iguodala).

Some stats:

1) 18.8 PPG, 5.3 APG, 5.7 RPG, .507 eFG, 9.2 WS
2) 19.4 PPG, 5.9 APG, 6.4 RPG, .525 eFG, 12.3 WS

#1 is Iguodala in 2008-2009.
#2 is Pippen in 1995-1996.

Iguodala is an extremely high IQ player. He contributes on both ends of the floor as a utility knife. Pippen shared those characeristics.

Tony Allen is a great perimeter defender, but he is also a tremendous negative on the offensive end.

I'm not comparing any of those people to Kobe. Iguodala is more than a role player. Ginobili has spent much of his career coming off the bench, but he is not a role player.
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Old 08-25-2017, 03:48 PM
 
5,134 posts, read 2,759,419 times
Reputation: 4705
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Iguodala comes off of the bench for lineup reasons, not talent reasons. He's an elite defender, and a versatile offensive player. He was the best player on the Nuggets playoff squad, plus on those 76ers teams once AI retired. He was always a better player than Harrison Barnes, but Barnes was with the starting unit for rotation purposes--so that Iguodala could anchor the team when Curry got rest. He's not a better player than KD, but not many people are. And he still plays a critical role, including taking on the toughest wing defensive assignments (who did the Warriors go to down the stretch against LBJ? Iguodala).

Some stats:

1) 18.8 PPG, 5.3 APG, 5.7 RPG, .507 eFG, 9.2 WS
2) 19.4 PPG, 5.9 APG, 6.4 RPG, .525 eFG, 12.3 WS

#1 is Iguodala in 2008-2009.
#2 is Pippen in 1995-1996.

Iguodala is an extremely high IQ player. He contributes on both ends of the floor as a utility knife. Pippen shared those characeristics.

Tony Allen is a great perimeter defender, but he is also a tremendous negative on the offensive end.

I'm not comparing any of those people to Kobe. Iguodala is more than a role player. Ginobili has spent much of his career coming off the bench, but he is not a role player.
I think you're looking at the term "role player" as a negative thing for some reason, but it's not. Role players are required to complete ANY NBA team looking to win a championship. The early 2000s Lakers only got as far as they did because of their role players (D-Fish, Fox, Horace Grant, Horry, etc). Not everyone can be the "Kobe" or "Shaq" on their team, and that's because there's only a certain amount of possessions a game, and you give the ball to the person you MOST trust to push your team forward to victory.

Now ask yourself, why did you have to limit yourself to Iggy's 2008 season when making your case?

We both know the answer. Iggy only had a few seasons where he was legitimately the #1 option on his team. When he went to other teams, he became at a role player/6th man, but he was never "the man" on those teams, that title belonged to Steph, Durant, and Klay.

Here are the facts.

Over Iggy's career he's a 16.0 PERs guy (just slightly above the NBA average). That puts him in the same company as guys like Harrison Barnes, Dennis Schroder, and Dewayne Dedmon. He has a lower win share percentage than guys like Paul Pierce, and only averaged 13.0 PPG over his career. The guy has only made a SINGLE all-star game for crying out loud.

He's a good perimeter defender and somewhat decent scorer if he gets minutes, but his career does not stack up against Paul Pierce by any objective measure. For his role, which is defending, he's great. But Iggy isn't going to be the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd guy on any NBA team, the 76ers tried that, and they went no where. Paul Pierce has been that guy for the majority of his career.
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Old 08-25-2017, 04:17 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,873,763 times
Reputation: 2263
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliRestoration View Post
I think you're looking at the term "role player" as a negative thing for some reason, but it's not. Role players are required to complete ANY NBA team looking to win a championship. The early 2000s Lakers only got as far as they did because of their role players (D-Fish, Fox, Horace Grant, Horry, etc). Not everyone can be the "Kobe" or "Shaq" on their team, and that's because there's only a certain amount of possessions a game, and you give the ball to the person you MOST trust to push your team forward to victory.

Now ask yourself, why did you have to limit yourself to Iggy's 2008 season when making your case?

We both know the answer. Iggy only had a few seasons where he was legitimately the #1 option on his team. When he went to other teams, he became at a role player/6th man, but he was never "the man" on those teams, that title belonged to Steph, Durant, and Klay.

Here are the facts.

Over Iggy's career he's a 16.0 PERs guy (just slightly above the NBA average). That puts him in the same company as guys like Harrison Barnes, Dennis Schroder, and Dewayne Dedmon. He has a lower win share percentage than guys like Paul Pierce, and only averaged 13.0 PPG over his career. The guy has only made a SINGLE all-star game for crying out loud.

He's a good perimeter defender and somewhat decent scorer if he gets minutes, but his career does not stack up against Paul Pierce by any objective measure. For his role, which is defending, he's great. But Iggy isn't going to be the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd guy on any NBA team, the 76ers tried that, and they went no where. Paul Pierce has been that guy for the majority of his career.
Role player & 6th Man are not the same thing. Role players are defined by a "role." They are useful in certain circumstances. Iguodala is a legitimate starter with a bench address. Like Ginobli.

PER fails to account for most aspects of defensive performance, which is where Iguodala shines.

I chose 08-09 at random. His All-Star season was 11-12.

Klay is much more a role player than Iguodala. Iguodala is versatile, and can play, quite literally, many roles. On offense, he handles ball handling and distribution responsibilities. On defense, he is an incredible individual and team defender.

It is insane to think he is in the company of Barnes, Schroder, and Dedmon. At least--it's insane if winning basketball games is your goal.
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Old 08-25-2017, 04:38 PM
 
5,134 posts, read 2,759,419 times
Reputation: 4705
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post

Klay is much more a role player than Iguodala. Iguodala is versatile, and can play, quite literally, many roles. On offense, he handles ball handling and distribution responsibilities.
Dude he's a career 13.0 PPG, 4.5 assist guy. Decent for sure, but you think that gives him a Top 20 All-time spot at SF?

I feel like I'm in crazy town right now.
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Old 08-25-2017, 05:05 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,873,763 times
Reputation: 2263
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliRestoration View Post
Dude he's a career 13.0 PPG, 4.5 assist guy. Decent for sure, but you think that gives him a Top 20 All-time spot at SF?

I feel like I'm in crazy town right now.
There are few players who have ever played like him. Pippen & Ginobli are the only comparables who come to mind. They are all players who have a tremendous impact on games without being scorers. They all handle ball handling/distributing responsibilities, and they all are excellent defenders.
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