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Old 09-28-2017, 10:28 AM
 
Location: California
1,191 posts, read 1,286,180 times
Reputation: 1756

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I wonder why people seem to think this. I am lifting the following from insidehoops.



TL;DR - Lebron's ball dominance only allows for only one playmaker on the court at a time.

I actually think Kyrie's stats and overall play will get better, not worse. He was already an All-Star before Lebron came back to Cleveland. At 25, he's just entering his prime and will be doing so with a better coach and an All-Star sidekick.
The article you quoted is spot on. You can actually see it when you watch the teams play. The Spurs and Warriors players keep moving during an offensive posession. One reason Draymond Green went from an off the bench role player under Jackson to a key starter under Kerr is his teammates. Curry and Thompson are so good off the ball that it allowed Green start handling and ball. This made Green much more dangerous offensively. He started initiating the offense and forcing defenses to pay attention to him.

Great players who can excel off the ball truly make their teammates better. LeBron is an excellent passer. But his teammates are usually too dependent on him. So when he sits it all breaks down.
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Old 09-28-2017, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
1,242 posts, read 637,813 times
Reputation: 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I wonder why people seem to think this. I am lifting the following from insidehoops.



TL;DR - Lebron's ball dominance only allows for only one playmaker on the court at a time.

I actually think Kyrie's stats and overall play will get better, not worse. He was already an All-Star before Lebron came back to Cleveland. At 25, he's just entering his prime and will be doing so with a better coach and an All-Star sidekick.

I just wonder who's going to be the Cavs' go-to option in the 4th quarter against Golden State, assuming each team makes it that far. As great as Lebron is, we all know he's more Magic than Michael/Kobe at this point.
Actually, LeBron has been more Magic his whole career. He's just a bigger and more physical version of Magic.
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Old 09-28-2017, 10:38 AM
 
Location: California
1,191 posts, read 1,286,180 times
Reputation: 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by QCongress83216 View Post
Typical Warriors fan, who thinks that everybody in the NBA is inferior, and that the Warriors will cake walk to a repeat. LOL!
I got a chuckle out of you thinking I'm a Warriors fan! They are the favorites until someone beats them. Stating that doesn't make me a fan. Just stating the obvious.
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Old 09-28-2017, 10:56 AM
 
482 posts, read 251,209 times
Reputation: 1196
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliDude1 View Post
The article you quoted is spot on. You can actually see it when you watch the teams play. The Spurs and Warriors players keep moving during an offensive posession. One reason Draymond Green went from an off the bench role player under Jackson to a key starter under Kerr is his teammates. Curry and Thompson are so good off the ball that it allowed Green start handling and ball. This made Green much more dangerous offensively. He started initiating the offense and forcing defenses to pay attention to him.

Great players who can excel off the ball truly make their teammates better. LeBron is an excellent passer. But his teammates are usually too dependent on him. So when he sits it all breaks down.
Agree. Having a forward who can also run the point can help make an offense unstoppable. But having a forward who won't let anyone else run the point makes for stagnant offenses that are easier to defend (relative to the talent they have), and ugly basketball overall.
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Old 09-28-2017, 11:15 AM
 
2,837 posts, read 1,776,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Perhaps. I would probably be less concerned if those potential rotations you're talking about included improved defense. But they got defenders who are as bad if not worse on defense as Kyrie but not as dynamic on the offensive end. Crowder is a solid defender, but it's not an "upgrade" per se because no one in the NBA can guard KD anyway.



Some say that IT4 excelled because of Stevens' system and that Kyrie wanted to go to Boston to play in a system with better spacing and ball movement. It actually makes some sense since IT4 never made an All-Star team until he went to Boston. The thinking is that if Kyrie can get buckets in a stagnant, Lebron-dominated offense, then imagine what he can do in a more free-flowing Brad Stevens offense. And on the flipside, can IT4 be as effective in an offensive set where Lebron is holding the ball more than anyone else and where the spacing and ball movement won't be like Boston's.
I always shook my head when people placed Kyrie outside the Top 5 PG ratings.


Having watched him for the past 6 years- Unfortunately, One of his strengths is not distributing the basketball. In this respect the Lebron/Kyrie marriage was perfect. In a traditional PG sense he's not your top 5 guy.


Now, Kyrie is an excellent ball handler, he's developed a very good shooting touch from 3, and he's the best finisher at the bucket. These skills will serve him well in ANY offense., but running a Steph Curry/John Wall get the ball to your playmakers type offense. Kyrie is more of a Kobe- whether he fully gets there or not- we will find out. He's gonna have to break some habits.


You could argue- as have guys like Kyle Korver have- that Lebron is one of the best ALL-TIME at creating space for others. It is exactly what Steph does for KD. Kyrie is going to be relied on to do what Lebron did for him in Cleveland.
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Old 09-28-2017, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,237,774 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
Having watched him for the past 6 years- Unfortunately, One of his strengths is not distributing the basketball. In this respect the Lebron/Kyrie marriage was perfect. In a traditional PG sense he's not your top 5 guy.
Isaiah Thomas is not a ball distributor. Brad Stevens constructed a potent offense around him anyway. Kyrie wants to be the No. 1 option on his team, which doesn't necessarily mean he wants to be CP3 all of a sudden. Hell, even Curry isn't much of a ball distributor as far as pure PGs go, but Kerr introduced a system that works well for him.

Could you imagine Curry playing with Lebron for 6 years? Could he have ever become the player he is now with Lebron holding the ball while everyone else posts up for waiting for a shot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
Now, Kyrie is an excellent ball handler, he's developed a very good shooting touch from 3, and he's the best finisher at the bucket. These skills will serve him well in ANY offense., but running a Steph Curry/John Wall get the ball to your playmakers type offense. Kyrie is more of a Kobe- whether he fully gets there or not- we will find out. He's gonna have to break some habits.
I'm not even sure why you paired Curry and Wall together. They have very different roles on their respective teams. The main thing Kerr did with Curry was take him off the ball and allow Draymond Green and Iggy to take over more of the floor generalship.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3sC6-f3q9E

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
You could argue- as have guys like Kyle Korver have- that Lebron is one of the best ALL-TIME at creating space for others. It is exactly what Steph does for KD. Kyrie is going to be relied on to do what Lebron did for him in Cleveland.
Kyle Korver is right as far as his situation is concerned because he's basically a statue who either posts up or comes off screens looking for a shot. Kyrie can do that (he shot 40.1% from 3 last year), but he can also torch defenses with ISO ball even while operating in cramped spaces. So giving him even more space for him to work against the likes of Curry or Thompson will only be to his benefit.
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Old 09-28-2017, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
1,242 posts, read 637,813 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliDude1 View Post
I got a chuckle out of you thinking I'm a Warriors fan! They are the favorites until someone beats them. Stating that doesn't make me a fan. Just stating the obvious.
I was being sarcastic hence the "LOL!." Yeah, they are the favorites, but I was making fun of the people who make it as if the Warriors are cake walking to a repeat or as if they're unbeatable. I think Wade gives the Cavs more depth if at full strength. He's not gonna play 82 or a lot of minutes because you want to reserve him for the playoffs. You're just asking him to score a little bit and be a playmaker.
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Old 09-28-2017, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Akron, OH
1,616 posts, read 1,590,437 times
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Isn't it odd that he got bought out before the season even started? I've never heard of that before. Why not try to trade him or have him teach and mentor some of the younger players?
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Old 09-28-2017, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
1,242 posts, read 637,813 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ma5cmpb View Post
Isn't it odd that he got bought out before the season even started? I've never heard of that before. Why not try to trade him or have him teach and mentor some of the younger players?
Wade didn't want to be in Chicago anymore plus he had issues with Bulls management. So, he wanted out of Chicago.
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Old 09-28-2017, 02:12 PM
 
482 posts, read 251,209 times
Reputation: 1196
Quote:
Originally Posted by ma5cmpb View Post
Isn't it odd that he got bought out before the season even started? I've never heard of that before. Why not try to trade him or have him teach and mentor some of the younger players?
At a 24 million dollar salary for this coming season, who was going to trade for him? Prime D-Wade is a vague memory at this point. Also, it appears the whole "mentor" thing did not quite work out:

Dwyane Wade called out by more Chicago Bulls teammates
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