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Old 11-28-2017, 09:10 PM
 
17,319 posts, read 10,236,660 times
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Back to the mediocre Clippers of yesteryear!

That's what happens when you commit so much money to one player.

Blake Griffin injury leaves Clippers with one option
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Old 11-29-2017, 02:10 AM
 
1,577 posts, read 827,405 times
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A friendly reminder that James Harden and Steph Curry were in Blake Griffin's draft class, when the Clippers picked Griffin at #1.
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Old 11-29-2017, 03:11 AM
 
11,680 posts, read 7,059,219 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post



No need for the scare quotes on Horford's all star. He should start in the East this year, and--if voters know what they're doing--he should be on an all-NBA team.
Hes good but probably not one of your more elite 2nd best players on a team like Chris Paul, Paul George, Curry, Cousins or formerly Kyrie.
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Old 11-29-2017, 11:03 AM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,878,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
Hes good but probably not one of your more elite 2nd best players on a team like Chris Paul, Paul George, Curry, Cousins or formerly Kyrie.
Horford is the best player on the Cs. George is the best player on the Thunder. Curry is the best player on the Warriors. Kyrie is the 2nd best player on the Cs.
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Old 11-29-2017, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,279,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Horford is the best player on the Cs. George is the best player on the Thunder. Curry is the best player on the Warriors. Kyrie is the 2nd best player on the Cs.
Who on the Celtics is better than Kyrie?

Curry is not the best player on the Warriors.
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Old 11-29-2017, 12:38 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,878,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Who on the Celtics is better than Kyrie?

Curry is not the best player on the Warriors.
1. Horford
2. He is.

On one, see these:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...who-you-think/
https://www.theringer.com/2017/5/10/...5-68cc1067e83f
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/1...nfernee-simons

On two:
a) One of the best seasons in NBA history
b) Last year's league leader in +/- (and the first player ever to exceed +1000
c) The Curry effect: last year, KD had his best ever shooting year as a pro--better than his MVP season. He also had his most efficient playoffs ever. He is again putting up career shooting numbers this year. Harrison Barnes, a young player who should be on the upswing, saw his shooting percentages drop significantly after he left Curry. Ian Clark is in the same boat. Dorell Wright had his two career years playing with Curry. Casspi is having a career year playing with Curry. Zaza's career best shooting is with Curry. Bogut had a career renaissance playing with Curry. Curry's greatest talent is making other players better. Curry is a better shooter, ball handler, and passer than KD. He attracts more defensive attention than KD. He is a more vital cog to the best team in basketball than KD.
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Old 11-29-2017, 01:41 PM
 
52,032 posts, read 41,862,229 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
1. Horford
2. He is.

On one, see these:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...who-you-think/
https://www.theringer.com/2017/5/10/...5-68cc1067e83f
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/1...nfernee-simons

On two:
a) One of the best seasons in NBA history
b) Last year's league leader in +/- (and the first player ever to exceed +1000
c) The Curry effect: last year, KD had his best ever shooting year as a pro--better than his MVP season. He also had his most efficient playoffs ever. He is again putting up career shooting numbers this year. Harrison Barnes, a young player who should be on the upswing, saw his shooting percentages drop significantly after he left Curry. Ian Clark is in the same boat. Dorell Wright had his two career years playing with Curry. Casspi is having a career year playing with Curry. Zaza's career best shooting is with Curry. Bogut had a career renaissance playing with Curry. Curry's greatest talent is making other players better. Curry is a better shooter, ball handler, and passer than KD. He attracts more defensive attention than KD. He is a more vital cog to the best team in basketball than KD.
Durant took fewer shots and had less offensive pressure not just due to Curry but Thompson and Green as well.

The FG% went from .505 to .537, just taking fewer 3-pointers would have moved him to .517 all else being equal.

Throw in not being forced as much to make bail out shots....and I really don't see any "Curry effect".

*shrug* I guess the MVP voters for the finals didn't see enough "curry effect" to give it to him either.

Don't get me wrong, Curry is awesome but I'll respectfully select Durant.
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Old 11-29-2017, 02:22 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,878,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Durant took fewer shots and had less offensive pressure not just due to Curry but Thompson and Green as well.

The FG% went from .505 to .537, just taking fewer 3-pointers would have moved him to .517 all else being equal.

Throw in not being forced as much to make bail out shots....and I really don't see any "Curry effect".

*shrug* I guess the MVP voters for the finals didn't see enough "curry effect" to give it to him either.

Don't get me wrong, Curry is awesome but I'll respectfully select Durant.
.505 to .537 is a big improvement, as were his TS & eFG percentages: eFG went from .573 to .594. TS% went from .634 to .651.

Still more dramatic was his improvement in the playoffs--when defenses get tough. FG% went from .430 to .556. eFG% went from .468 to .627. TS% went from .542 to .683. Those are astronomical leaps.

Curry is the engine that produces this effect for KD, Klay, and Draymond. Watch defenses when he has the ball--or when he is away from the ball. He draws so much attention that there are openings all over the floor. Draymond often leads a 4 on 3 offensive set in the half court because of how hard opponents hedge Curry's pick & roll--even out at 35 feet. KD--like everyone else in GS, benefits from Curry's gravity with better looks.

A Finals MVP is about a series (sometimes a game or a possession). Without Curry, the Warriors have no chance in the Finals.
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Old 11-29-2017, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,279,915 times
Reputation: 11734
Al Horford is not the best player on that team by any objective measure. To be sure, he's a valuable player, but Scottie Pippen was also a valuable player. Being valuable doesn't mean you're the most valuable player on your team.

I mean, if you consider Al Horford to be the best player on the Celtics despite his mediocre numbers (13.6 ppg and 8.2 boards), then you should also consider Draymond Green the best player on the Warriors despite having worse statistical numbers than Stephen Curry. Draymond had even better numbers than Horford on that 73 win team (14.0 ppg, 9.2 boards, 7.4 assists) and we all know he's a complete monster on defense. If the argument is that Horford is the best simply because the Celtics can't win without him, then that logic should extend to Draymond as well since the Warriors are clearly a worse off team when he's not playing.

Warriors find it's not easy without Draymond Green - Stats & Info- ESPN

You could say that Kyrie isn't as valuable as Horford since the Cs won the single game where Kyrie was out, but couldn't we equally say that Steph isn't as valuable as Draymond since the Warriors blew out the Rockets and went up 2-0 on Portland without Curry? Let's be real, neither of these players is bringing LBJ-like value to their teams. Their respective teams are better with them but more than adequate without them.
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Old 11-29-2017, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,279,915 times
Reputation: 11734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Durant took fewer shots and had less offensive pressure not just due to Curry but Thompson and Green as well.

The FG% went from .505 to .537, just taking fewer 3-pointers would have moved him to .517 all else being equal.

Throw in not being forced as much to make bail out shots....and I really don't see any "Curry effect".

*shrug* I guess the MVP voters for the finals didn't see enough "curry effect" to give it to him either.

Don't get me wrong, Curry is awesome but I'll respectfully select Durant.
Agreed. KD is more efficient because his team is better. No surprise there. I still don't see how we get to Curry being better seeing that KD has won multiple scoring titles and even won an MVP in a year when Westbrook was injured.

In addition to being the best scorer in the game today, Durant is multiple times better than Curry defensively. Not sure how we can ignore this in a discussion of who's "better." The Warriors can run a small ball lineup without Curry but it's virtually impossible for them to do so without Durant since he's their best rim protector. He can match up against positions 1-5 whereas Curry can only match up against positions 1-2 at best.
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