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Old 11-30-2017, 07:26 AM
 
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When that game went into overtime last night i knew the lakers blew their chance of beating the warriors.
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Old 11-30-2017, 08:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
.505 to .537 is a big improvement, as were his TS & eFG percentages: eFG went from .573 to .594. TS% went from .634 to .651.

Still more dramatic was his improvement in the playoffs--when defenses get tough. FG% went from .430 to .556. eFG% went from .468 to .627. TS% went from .542 to .683. Those are astronomical leaps.

Curry is the engine that produces this effect for KD, Klay, and Draymond. Watch defenses when he has the ball--or when he is away from the ball. He draws so much attention that there are openings all over the floor. Draymond often leads a 4 on 3 offensive set in the half court because of how hard opponents hedge Curry's pick & roll--even out at 35 feet. KD--like everyone else in GS, benefits from Curry's gravity with better looks.

A Finals MVP is about a series (sometimes a game or a possession). Without Curry, the Warriors have no chance in the Finals.

I can agree that Curry gives the ability for everyone on the Warriors team to have a better look when taking a shot. Curry is the only person in league history that you realistically have to guard from 27 feet. Durant has been unstoppable at Golden State; however, it's not just Curry. That starting 5 all play their roles very well. Durant had to wear many hats in OKC and so did Westbook. OKC didn't bet on Harden turning into what he is now, which I think the move to not resign him still haunts that team. They had their big 3, but ownership didn't see it. Hindsight is always 20/20 though. Durant, now at Golden State, really only has to wear one hat. It's the system, it's the players, it's them playing efficiently together, because they only have to focus on their one role. That means they have the ability to master their one role. That's hard to beat!
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Old 11-30-2017, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,303 posts, read 26,300,037 times
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Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
Durant may be a better individual player than Curry, but the Warriors' +/- is always higher when Curry is on the court vs Durant, including last year's Finals. Whether he fits in better with the Warrior system or is a better team player over all is debatable, but it's been a consistent stat from last year up to now.
+/- doesn't necessarily mean a player is adding more value. It's possible that he's simply on the floor with better players as a function of the rotations.

Durant led Curry in Win Shares Per 48 minutes last year in both the regular season and post-season. That's not the end-all, be-all, but those numbers make it hard to defend the assertion that Curry had Alpha Dog status. Granted, Curry leads Durant in Win Shares Per 48 this season, but I think we need to wait until at least All-Star Weekend to see if that really means anything. We haven't even played a quarter of the season yet.

I don't think it's debatable whether KD is a better player overall. He can thrive in an ISO-heavy system under Scott Brooks or in a ball movement-heavy offense under Steve Kerr. We can't say for sure if Curry would have any MVPs without the right system.
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Old 11-30-2017, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,303 posts, read 26,300,037 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weezerfan84 View Post
I can agree that Curry gives the ability for everyone on the Warriors team to have a better look when taking a shot. Curry is the only person in league history that you realistically have to guard from 27 feet. Durant has been unstoppable at Golden State; however, it's not just Curry. That starting 5 all play their roles very well. Durant had to wear many hats in OKC and so did Westbook. OKC didn't bet on Harden turning into what he is now, which I think the move to not resign him still haunts that team. They had their big 3, but ownership didn't see it. Hindsight is always 20/20 though. Durant, now at Golden State, really only has to wear one hat. It's the system, it's the players, it's them playing efficiently together, because they only have to focus on their one role. That means they have the ability to master their one role. That's hard to beat!
I don't think KD has one role in Golden State. He has a lighter offensive load, sure, but he wears more hats for the Warriors than he did for the Thunder. He has to shore up the Warriors' interior presence, which is something he never had to do with Adams and Kanter providing all the interior presence you could ever need. He's also become more of a floor general and playmaker now that he no longer shares a ball with Westbrick.
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I don't think KD has one role in Golden State. He has a lighter offensive load, sure, but he wears more hats for the Warriors than he did for the Thunder. He has to shore up the Warriors' interior presence, which is something he never had to do with Adams and Kanter providing all the interior presence you could ever need. He's also become more of a floor general and playmaker now that he no longer shares a ball with Westbrick.

I don't agree. He definitely wore more hats in OKC, because there were only 2 reliable scorers once Harden went to Houston. They never put reliable scorers around Durant and Westbrook after that. Adams is no Harden and the bench left a lot to be desired.


He may play a bit of interior defense for the Warriors, but I don't consider that wearing another hat as much as the hats he was wearing in OKC. His defense and offense is better in Golden State, because of the help from the other 4 players on the floor. He has more energy, which means he can sustain playing at a higher level longer, because he's not having to dominate one end of the floor always in ISO and trying to create his own shot. That is what he's been given at Golden State.


Klay Thompson can absolutely scorch the earth at any moment. When he gets a hot hand, it's over! Draymond is the reincarnation of Barkley, without being leaned on for offensive production. That starting 5 can put points on the board, so the job is easier for all of them. Durant, Thompson, Curry, and Draymond can all score, from the paint, to midrange, to beyond the arc. That can't be said reliably for any other team in the league, except for probably the Rockets.
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:30 AM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,880,628 times
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Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
The whole point of getting Durant was because he was a top 2-3 player in the league and getting him meant he didn't either stay on the team that just took you to 7 games or end up on the Spurs, Cleveland etc.
The whole point of getting Durant was that he is a great player & why wouldn't you try to get him if you can?

Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
My guy Bridge is getting out of control with his Warriors and Curry fandom again. We can count on this at least two more times this season...

Straight to the point, Durant is a better player than Curry, and has always been a better player than Curry. It's not particularly close, as there's a considerable gap between Durant and every player beneath his level, and everybody knows it...

Horford is not nearly the player Krie is, stop kidding yourself...
The truth is out there. I think Durant is a top 4 player, and Curry a top 2.

When it comes to the offensive side of the ball: Curry is the system in Golden State.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
Durant may be a better individual player than Curry, but the Warriors' +/- is always higher when Curry is on the court vs Durant, including last year's Finals. Whether he fits in better with the Warrior system or is a better team player over all is debatable, but it's been a consistent stat from last year up to now.
The system is Curry. Durant excels at many things in basketball, but he is unable to warp NBA defense in the way that Curry does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moneymkt View Post
When that game went into overtime last night i knew the lakers blew their chance of beating the warriors.
They showed some promise: they've got a lot of length and it shows on defense. Ingram showed flashes of what the Lakers hope to get from him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weezerfan84 View Post
I can agree that Curry gives the ability for everyone on the Warriors team to have a better look when taking a shot. Curry is the only person in league history that you realistically have to guard from 27 feet. Durant has been unstoppable at Golden State; however, it's not just Curry. That starting 5 all play their roles very well. Durant had to wear many hats in OKC and so did Westbook. OKC didn't bet on Harden turning into what he is now, which I think the move to not resign him still haunts that team. They had their big 3, but ownership didn't see it. Hindsight is always 20/20 though. Durant, now at Golden State, really only has to wear one hat. It's the system, it's the players, it's them playing efficiently together, because they only have to focus on their one role. That means they have the ability to master their one role. That's hard to beat!
Indeed, the Warriors have a collection of great players. But they are maximized because of Curry's gravity.

OKC's mismanagement of Durant-Westbrook-Harden-Ibaka has to be the worst team management since at least Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan. Maybe longer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
+/- doesn't necessarily mean a player is adding more value. It's possible that he's simply on the floor with better players as a function of the rotations.

Durant led Curry in Win Shares Per 48 minutes last year in both the regular season and post-season. That's not the end-all, be-all, but those numbers make it hard to defend the assertion that Curry had Alpha Dog status. Granted, Curry leads Durant in Win Shares Per 48 this season, but I think we need to wait until at least All-Star Weekend to see if that really means anything. We haven't even played a quarter of the season yet.

I don't think it's debatable whether KD is a better player overall. He can thrive in an ISO-heavy system under Scott Brooks or in a ball movement-heavy offense under Steve Kerr. We can't say for sure if Curry would have any MVPs without the right system.
Watch the Warriors' games. Curry plays the first 12 minutes. Durant usually plays the first 9. Klay the first 9-11. The Warriors usually have one of Thompson & Green in to start the 2nd. Then the bring in KD after a few minutes, then Curry comes in with about 5-5.5 minutes left. The Warriors offense always struggles to get good looks until Curry returns in the 2nd/4th. The Warriors vaunted 3rd quarter happens because their offensive system is in the game for the entire 3rd.

The debate is firmly in favor of Curry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I don't think KD has one role in Golden State. He has a lighter offensive load, sure, but he wears more hats for the Warriors than he did for the Thunder. He has to shore up the Warriors' interior presence, which is something he never had to do with Adams and Kanter providing all the interior presence you could ever need. He's also become more of a floor general and playmaker now that he no longer shares a ball with Westbrick.
The Warriors pass more & share more defensive responsibility. Durant has acclimated. Draymond chewed him out when he took a bad shot when a great one was available last year--in a way I doubt he has ever been chewed out--certainly not as a pro.
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:31 AM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,880,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weezerfan84 View Post
I don't agree. He definitely wore more hats in OKC, because there were only 2 reliable scorers once Harden went to Houston. They never put reliable scorers around Durant and Westbrook after that. Adams is no Harden and the bench left a lot to be desired.

He may play a bit of interior defense for the Warriors, but I don't consider that wearing another hat as much as the hats he was wearing in OKC. His defense and offense is better in Golden State, because of the help from the other 4 players on the floor. He has more energy, which means he can sustain playing at a higher level longer, because he's not having to dominate one end of the floor always in ISO and trying to create his own shot. That is what he's been given at Golden State.

Klay Thompson can absolutely scorch the earth at any moment. When he gets a hot hand, it's over! Draymond is the reincarnation of Barkley, without being leaned on for offensive production. That starting 5 can put points on the board, so the job is easier for all of them. Durant, Thompson, Curry, and Draymond can all score, from the paint, to midrange, to beyond the arc. That can't be said reliably for any other team in the league, except for probably the Rockets.
Agreed. Draymond is better than Barkley, though. His offensive game is more glue than fire, but he's the best defender of his generation.
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Draymond is better than Barkley, though.
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Agreed. Draymond is better than Barkley, though. His offensive game is more glue than fire, but he's the best defender of his generation.
No way he's better. Draymond can't carry an offense like Barkley could. Not even close.
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:45 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,880,628 times
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Originally Posted by weezerfan84 View Post
No way he's better. Draymond can't carry an offense like Barkley could. Not even close.
I agree that Draymond can't carry on offense like Barkley could. Barkley had a more complete offensive game than Draymond. But Barkley was not in Draymond's universe on defense.
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