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Old 12-06-2017, 11:08 AM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,875,735 times
Reputation: 2263

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
While I have always loved his game, it seems that your favorites are lined up as "golden state" gets bonus points and anyone that played for Cleveland "negative points" lmao.

But I have been wrong before so why don't we put this to the test with a wager?

Does Horford get more MVP votes than KI?

Which one winds up on a higher "all-nba team"?
I think LBJ is one of the greatest players of all time--on the same tier that includes MJ, Kareem, Magic, and Bill Russell.

Horford is a great big. He has been for many years, but he is oft-overlooked because of counting stats and flash. Horford does not get more MVP votes than Kyrie--I earlier explained that the team success argument is an argument in support of Horford, not Kyrie.

Voters gave the award to Russell Westbrook last year--who "led" his team to 6th in the West and a 1st round sweep. I don't put stock in voters.

As the NBA stands today:

1st Team:
Harden
Curry
LeBron
Anthony Davis
Cousins

2nd Team:
Kyrie
Lillard
KD
Giannis
Drummond

3rd Team:
DeRozan
Devin Booker
Aldridge
Love
Horford

Closest calls: Porzingis, Capela, Jokic, Embiid, and having to include a 6th guard. Also disappointing to include two Pelicans on the 1st team, given that they're just not that good a team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
Check his advanced statistics. PER is at a career high. TS% is at a career high. USG% at a career high. Not bad considering Kyrie was great last year.

Hmm, Kyrie is having his best season and the team hes traded to just happens to be on pace to win 69 games compared to 52 with Horford leading the way. But yeah, Horford is their best player.

MVP doesnt always go to the player with the best stats. If the Celtics finish with the NBAs best record Kyrie will likely finish top-3 in MVP voting with a good chance of being #1. Book it.
PER is a notch higher, yes. TS% is slightly up. Usage is virtually the same. Kyrie looks like the same player.

It is too early in the year to count 69 wins before they have hatched (they won 53 last year, btw--46-22 when Horford played, 7-7 without him). The Cs had a nice win streak, but their margin of victory looks more like a 55 win team than a 65 win team.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:18 PM
 
2,838 posts, read 1,777,608 times
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We are talking about Al Horford (Practice)...we are talking about Al Horford (Practice)....(Practice).


"City" is a Kyrie Hater. I acknowledge KI doesn't measure up to Lebron or other MVP candidates but I've argued there are very few if any that can get to basket and finish on anyone or pulling up and hitting consistent jumpers.


He's not a distributor in the traditional sense that we see from older PGs and a few newer PGs but where he doesn't distribute as well, he just takes the ball and scores at clutch moments.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,247,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
"City" is a Kyrie Hater.
Kyrie has made Curry look really bad so that's understandable.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:31 PM
 
5,432 posts, read 1,546,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
If the Cavs end up within striking distance of the best record and James is putting up these kinds of numbers all year, then he is a viable MVP. It would be disappointing for Harden to put together this body of work these last few years and not win one (I put Harden solidly as the #3 player in the NBA today), but LBJ is doing some crazy things this year. There will be shifts as they integrate Thomas, though. I don't see the case for Irving. As it stands today, it would be the weakest case since at least Derrick Rose and perhaps longer.
Kyrie is definitely good enough to win MVP, as his numbers aren't far behind Curry (and Curry is always in the MVP picture).

Kyrie Irving: 23.5ppg .487fg .382treys 5.0apg 1.5spg
Steph Curry: 26.4ppg .473fg .381treys 6.6apg 1.7spg

Plus there is no doubt Boston is exceeding expectations and playing above the talent of their roster, thanks to Kyrie.
They are winning even more than the media expected them to win with Hayward.
In fact to again use the Curry comparison, I think if you remove Curry from Golden State and put Kyrie on that team, Golden State's record would be the same.
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:37 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,875,735 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
We are talking about Al Horford (Practice)...we are talking about Al Horford (Practice)....(Practice).

"City" is a Kyrie Hater. I acknowledge KI doesn't measure up to Lebron or other MVP candidates but I've argued there are very few if any that can get to basket and finish on anyone or pulling up and hitting consistent jumpers.

He's not a distributor in the traditional sense that we see from older PGs and a few newer PGs but where he doesn't distribute as well, he just takes the ball and scores at clutch moments.
I think Kyrie is good, but overrated (especially here). My fundamental point has been that he is not at the level of the MVP candidates. He is an excellent scorer and ball handler, but, as you say--he's not much of a distributor for a primary ball handler (and I would add that he's not much of a defender).

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Kyrie has made Curry look really bad so that's understandable.
Like when Curry put up 26.8/9.4/8 on .619 TS% on the way to a 4-1 victory? Very bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amenalot View Post
Kyrie is definitely good enough to win MVP, as his numbers aren't far behind Curry (and Curry is always in the MVP picture).

Kyrie Irving: 23.5ppg .487fg .382treys 5.0apg 1.5spg
Steph Curry: 26.4ppg .473fg .381treys 6.6apg 1.7spg

Plus there is no doubt Boston is exceeding expectations and playing above the talent of their roster, thanks to Kyrie.
They are winning even more than the media expected them to win with Hayward.
In fact to again use the Curry comparison, I think if you remove Curry from Golden State and put Kyrie on that team, Golden State's record would be the same.
Curry's PER is 27.5 & his TS% is 5% better than Kyrie's. His +/- numbers are considerably better than Kyrie's. Curry is doing more to help his team win than Kyrie. He's also averaging an extra 2 rebounds (5.1 v. 3.2). Curry is scoring more on the same number of shots (17.7 v. 17.8 attempts per game). And, as always, he is leading the league in hockey assists.
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Old 12-06-2017, 04:30 PM
 
11,679 posts, read 7,050,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post



PER is a notch higher, yes. TS% is slightly up. Usage is virtually the same. Kyrie looks like the same player.

It is too early in the year to count 69 wins before they have hatched (they won 53 last year, btw--46-22 when Horford played, 7-7 without him). The Cs had a nice win streak, but their margin of victory looks more like a 55 win team than a 65 win team.
In other words, everything is up and hes leading a team on pace to win 69 games. LOL. Kyrie has a garbage supporting cast for a team on pace to win that many games. Very young team...Kyrie himself is only 25.
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Old 12-06-2017, 04:34 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,875,735 times
Reputation: 2263
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
In other words, everything is up and hes leading a team on pace to win 69 games. LOL. Kyrie has a garbage supporting cast for a team on pace to win that many games. Very young team...Kyrie himself is only 25.
I knew not to count on you for reading . . .
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Old 12-06-2017, 04:35 PM
 
11,679 posts, read 7,050,301 times
Reputation: 6387
Quote:
Originally Posted by amenalot View Post
Kyrie is definitely good enough to win MVP, as his numbers aren't far behind Curry (and Curry is always in the MVP picture).

Kyrie Irving: 23.5ppg .487fg .382treys 5.0apg 1.5spg
Steph Curry: 26.4ppg .473fg .381treys 6.6apg 1.7spg

Plus there is no doubt Boston is exceeding expectations and playing above the talent of their roster, thanks to Kyrie.
They are winning even more than the media expected them to win with Hayward.
In fact to again use the Curry comparison, I think if you remove Curry from Golden State and put Kyrie on that team, Golden State's record would be the same.
Every team playing the Celtics has a goal of stopping Kyrie. Curry plays with Durant, Green and Thompson - little harder to focus solely on Curry when 3 other players can burn you.
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Old 12-06-2017, 05:02 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,875,735 times
Reputation: 2263
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
Every team playing the Celtics has a goal of stopping Kyrie. Curry plays with Durant, Green and Thompson - little harder to focus solely on Curry when 3 other players can burn you.
Curry's '15-16 season was before Durant. Green is not a player who can burn you on offense. Defenses have long focused on trying to slow Curry & get the ball out of his hands. That didn't change when KD came to town.
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:16 PM
 
2,838 posts, read 1,777,608 times
Reputation: 1243
If we are talking MVP so far....Lebron.

Shot looks great this season
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