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Old 12-06-2017, 09:37 PM
 
51,974 posts, read 41,815,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
I think LBJ is one of the greatest players of all time--on the same tier that includes MJ, Kareem, Magic, and Bill Russell.

Horford is a great big. He has been for many years, but he is oft-overlooked because of counting stats and flash. Horford does not get more MVP votes than Kyrie--I earlier explained that the team success argument is an argument in support of Horford, not Kyrie.

Voters gave the award to Russell Westbrook last year--who "led" his team to 6th in the West and a 1st round sweep. I don't put stock in voters.
Basically you feel you know more than the guys that vote for MVP and all-nba selections and disagree with them. You've also promoted Green past several guys with may more defensive recognition than him.

You also feel your guys "make people better" but that doesn't take away from any of the guys "being made better".

Come on super fan, let's just chill and get some ribs or something, you're wayyyy over the top for anyone in a GS jersey.
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:58 AM
 
11,679 posts, read 7,052,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Curry's '15-16 season was before Durant. Green is not a player who can burn you on offense. Defenses have long focused on trying to slow Curry & get the ball out of his hands. That didn't change when KD came to town.
But Dray can easily go for 15-20 (averaged 14 ppg in the last 3 playoffs). Klay can erupt for 40. Iggy and Livingston are no slouches on offense either. Durant has been an MVP level player for 5 years (went for 35 last night). You can try to focus on one of them, but good luck with that.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:08 AM
 
11,679 posts, read 7,052,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Basically you feel you know more than the guys that vote for MVP and all-nba selections and disagree with them. You've also promoted Green past several guys with may more defensive recognition than him.

You also feel your guys "make people better" but that doesn't take away from any of the guys "being made better".

Come on super fan, let's just chill and get some ribs or something, you're wayyyy over the top for anyone in a GS jersey.
Bingo. Every player on the Warriors “makes others better” but none of them make each other better.

Let’s face it, the Warriors are more of a stacked team rather than one that has some magical formula. Take ANY one player off the team and they are still one of the best teams and probably win 60 games...can’t say the same for the Celtics, Cavs, Rockets, etc.
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Old 12-07-2017, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,252,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
Letís face it, the Warriors are more of a stacked team rather than one that has some magical formula. Take ANY one player off the team and they are still one of the best teams and probably win 60 games...canít say the same for the Celtics, Cavs, Rockets, etc.
They may not have a magical formula but they do have a very good system. Some people even call Green a "system player." That sort of cuts against the argument that the team is stacked with talent (at least before adding KD).
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Old 12-07-2017, 09:40 AM
 
11,679 posts, read 7,052,167 times
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
They may not have a magical formula but they do have a very good system. Some people even call Green a "system player." That sort of cuts against the argument that the team is stacked with talent (at least before adding KD).
No doubt they have a good system but Curry and Durant are both MVP type players on any team. Klay is a great defender/shooter and probably puts up 20+ ppg anywhere. Dray has talent that makes the system better but also has talent (especially defensive/hussle) that translates to any team. Iggy was good 2 way player before he joined the team.
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,252,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
No doubt they have a good system but Curry and Durant are both MVP type players on any team. Klay is a great defender/shooter and probably puts up 20+ ppg anywhere. Dray has talent that makes the system better but also has talent (especially defensive/hussle) that translates to any team. Iggy was good 2 way player before he joined the team.
Do you think Curry would be an MVP player in a Scott Brooks/ISO heavy offense?

Klay can't create his own shot. He greatly benefits from the Warriors' ball movement and floor spacing. He's a better version of Danny Green.

Iggy was a good two way player, but he's essentially the Warriors' version of Ron Harper, only he was never as good as Harp.

A team I'd say was stacked with talent was the Miami Heat since they had 3 guys who had all been All-Star No. 1 options on their own teams. Then you throw in Ray Allen for a season and you've got 4 All-Stars/HOFers/former No. 1 option players.
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:42 AM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,876,340 times
Reputation: 2263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Basically you feel you know more than the guys that vote for MVP and all-nba selections and disagree with them. You've also promoted Green past several guys with may more defensive recognition than him.

You also feel your guys "make people better" but that doesn't take away from any of the guys "being made better".

Come on super fan, let's just chill and get some ribs or something, you're wayyyy over the top for anyone in a GS jersey.
The Warriors are a generational team.

The Russell Westbrook MVP is a sign to all of the quality of the voters--who are sportswriters with no greater training or wisdom than any other basketball fan.

The great hypocrisy is those who think the Warriors aren't individually special because of their teammates. It makes no sense to claim that every player on the Warriors looks better because of every other player on the Warriors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
Bingo. Every player on the Warriors ďmakes others betterĒ but none of them make each other better.

Letís face it, the Warriors are more of a stacked team rather than one that has some magical formula. Take ANY one player off the team and they are still one of the best teams and probably win 60 games...canít say the same for the Celtics, Cavs, Rockets, etc.
Take Curry off of the pre-KD Warriors, and they are a playoff team that is probably out in the 1st round--7th or 8th seed I would bet. Take Draymond off of the pre-KD Warriors and they are a playoff team with a shot to make the Finals. Take Klay (or Iguodala) off of the pre-KD Warriors and they are a legitimate contender. All three are great players.

Take Kyrie off of the Cavs, and they are still a top East team (see current state of affairs). Take P Bev, Lou Williams, and Sam Dekker off of the Rockets, and they are still a top West team (see success while Chris Paul was injured). Yeah, if LBJ or Harden are off of those teams, then they are dramatically worse--they are top players in the NBA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Do you think Curry would be an MVP player in a Scott Brooks/ISO heavy offense?

Klay can't create his own shot. He greatly benefits from the Warriors' ball movement and floor spacing. He's a better version of Danny Green.

Iggy was a good two way player, but he's essentially the Warriors' version of Ron Harper, only he was never as good as Harp.

A team I'd say was stacked with talent was the Miami Heat since they had 3 guys who had all been All-Star No. 1 options on their own teams. Then you throw in Ray Allen for a season and you've got 4 All-Stars/HOFers/former No. 1 option players.
Klay is the best 3 & D player we have ever seen. That is a valuable skill set in the pace & space era. Iguodala has been a top defensive wing through most of his tenure with the Warriors--the kind you can leave on an island with elite scorers and count on to make them work.

Curry's abilities would be a huge boost to any team. No one else can pull up off of the dribble from 30 feet with any kind of reliability. He is an excellent passer, ball handler, and finisher, so a defender trying to guard him that far out opens up driving and passing lanes. If he were in the pick & roll all season, I think he would average 30 & 10. When the Warriors get more pick & roll heavy--his numbers get gaudy.

The Heatles, the Duncan/Ginobli/Parker Spurs, the Shaq/Kobe Lakers, and the 90s Bulls--stacked teams, just like these Warriors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
No doubt they have a good system but Curry and Durant are both MVP type players on any team. Klay is a great defender/shooter and probably puts up 20+ ppg anywhere. Dray has talent that makes the system better but also has talent (especially defensive/hussle) that translates to any team. Iggy was good 2 way player before he joined the team.
Agreed, 100%.
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Old 12-07-2017, 11:05 AM
 
11,679 posts, read 7,052,167 times
Reputation: 6387
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Do you think Curry would be an MVP player in a Scott Brooks/ISO heavy offense?

Klay can't create his own shot. He greatly benefits from the Warriors' ball movement and floor spacing. He's a better version of Danny Green.

Iggy was a good two way player, but he's essentially the Warriors' version of Ron Harper, only he was never as good as Harp.

A team I'd say was stacked with talent was the Miami Heat since they had 3 guys who had all been All-Star No. 1 options on their own teams. Then you throw in Ray Allen for a season and you've got 4 All-Stars/HOFers/former No. 1 option players.
I think anywhere players like Curry or Durant go, the system will develop around them. Think any coach currently in the NBA wouldn’t want to plug in Curry and make their system work around him? Any coaches willing to limit Curry to anything less than a top 10 player in the league?

A better version of Danny Green is an all star as Green is an above average player himself. Klay is shooting 47.4% from 3 and is arguably the best long range shooter in the league. He’s had games of 40+, 50+ and even 60 points. Systems can make an average role player into a solid contributor but I doubt any system is making someone like Danny Green into a 23ppg player that shoots 47% from 3, 50% from the floor and 87% from the line. Just not happening. Heck, Klay was putting up 18.4 ppg at 23 with Mark Jackson coaching. Young Steph was putting up 24/9/4 under Jackson.
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Old 12-07-2017, 11:24 AM
 
11,679 posts, read 7,052,167 times
Reputation: 6387
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
The Warriors are a generational team.

The Russell Westbrook MVP is a sign to all of the quality of the voters--who are sportswriters with no greater training or wisdom than any other basketball fan.

The great hypocrisy is those who think the Warriors aren't individually special because of their teammates. It makes no sense to claim that every player on the Warriors looks better because of every other player on the Warriors.



Take Curry off of the pre-KD Warriors, and they are a playoff team that is probably out in the 1st round--7th or 8th seed I would bet. Take Draymond off of the pre-KD Warriors and they are a playoff team with a shot to make the Finals. Take Klay (or Iguodala) off of the pre-KD Warriors and they are a legitimate contender. All three are great players.

Take Kyrie off of the Cavs, and they are still a top East team (see current state of affairs). Take P Bev, Lou Williams, and Sam Dekker off of the Rockets, and they are still a top West team (see success while Chris Paul was injured). Yeah, if LBJ or Harden are off of those teams, then they are dramatically worse--they are top players in the NBA.



Klay is the best 3 & D player we have ever seen. That is a valuable skill set in the pace & space era. Iguodala has been a top defensive wing through most of his tenure with the Warriors--the kind you can leave on an island with elite scorers and count on to make them work.

Curry's abilities would be a huge boost to any team. No one else can pull up off of the dribble from 30 feet with any kind of reliability. He is an excellent passer, ball handler, and finisher, so a defender trying to guard him that far out opens up driving and passing lanes. If he were in the pick & roll all season, I think he would average 30 & 10. When the Warriors get more pick & roll heavy--his numbers get gaudy.

The Heatles, the Duncan/Ginobli/Parker Spurs, the Shaq/Kobe Lakers, and the 90s Bulls--stacked teams, just like these Warriors.



Agreed, 100%.
Take Kyrie off the Cavs and they have no championships and probably get swept in Ď16 and Ď17. Take Harden off the Rockets and they become the current Mavs. Take Kyrie off the Celtics and they arenít even .500. Take anyone off the current Warriors team and they are in the thick of things competeing for a championship.
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Old 12-07-2017, 12:08 PM
 
51,974 posts, read 41,815,822 times
Reputation: 32420
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
The Warriors are a generational team.

The Russell Westbrook MVP is a sign to all of the quality of the voters--who are sportswriters with no greater training or wisdom than any other basketball fan.
Ah, so the voters are RIGHT when giving awards to Green, Curry etc. but suddenly don't know what they're doing when they give them to other people.
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