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Old 12-19-2017, 03:59 AM
 
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I like #8 Kobe better...he seemed more happy and original...kinda odd that Kobe became more “like Mike” gesture/personality wise as he got older. Usually people stop acting by about 30.
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Old 12-19-2017, 04:31 AM
 
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^ That's a good point, Kobe was copying MJ's gesture/personality more recently.
Maybe the catalyst for that was the on-court duplication, because the 2nd half of MJ's career was something Kobe could duplicate more successfully (less athletic, more reliant on footwork than flying) so maybe Kobe felt closer to MJ when Kobe got older because he was no longer chasing the unobtainable "Air Jordan", now chasing "Ground Jordan".....and that may have further encouraged Kobe to mimic the facial expressions.
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Old 12-19-2017, 09:18 AM
 
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I never cared much for Kobe as a person.

Never struck me as a nice person at all.

The way he and his defense team dragged that Colorado woman's name through the mud was despicable, along with his admittance that he could see her point that it wasn't consesual sex.

I've been a Lakers fan for a very long time, and I most certainly don't view him with rose tinted glasses like others may.

With Kobe Bryant's jerseys retired, three big questions about Lakers icon remain | NBA | Sporting News
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Old 12-19-2017, 09:33 AM
 
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^ Interesting article, especially the part about the rape.
The fact Kobe and his attorney were willing to read something that really looked like a confession of rape, is very telling.
Sounds like Kobe was so scared of the full truth, that he was almost willing to confess it to make her go away.
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Old 12-19-2017, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,211 posts, read 2,830,037 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban_Guy View Post
I never cared much for Kobe as a person.

Never struck me as a nice person at all.

The way he and his defense team dragged that Colorado woman's name through the mud was despicable, along with his admittance that he could see her point that it wasn't consesual sex.

I've been a Lakers fan for a very long time, and I most certainly don't view him with rose tinted glasses like others may.

With Kobe Bryant's jerseys retired, three big questions about Lakers icon remain | NBA | Sporting News
I was a Kobe fan for years. At best he's the 9th or 10th greatest player ever. Personally, I don't think he's Top 10, I think he's more around #12...

The article raised many interesting points. Kobe's game hasn't and will not age well. I doubt it diminishes how we view his career--there was a long stretch he was a Top 10, Top 5 player and a smaller stretch he was possibly the greatest player in the game. We all saw him play, few people were better than he was at his peak. However, his game will, and should be, critiqued when compared to younger players who could wind up on a Top 10/15/20 list. He wasn't efficient nor was he all that clutch, but he had the reputation as a gunner (think Brett Favre here for a comparable football reference) and those who played against him feared him. He's worthy of plenty of praise...

Also my opinion on the rape thing--that happened when I was 14 years old, so my memory of the situation isn't as great as others. It's hard to say what really went on, but it was handled how it was handled and it's done to me. This is not unlike Ben Roethlisberger's own multiple situations in the NFL--can I say with certainty that Kobe didn't rape that girl? No, and I won't/don't even try to. Do I think it does put a stain on his personal and professional image? Sure, I mean he was 24 years old when he was accused if that, I'm 28 and have never been accused of raping anybody (it's not a hard accusation to avoid), and for every NBA player that's been accused of rape, we can point to rosters of legends who have NEVER been accused of such an act, some of whom who were bigger stars than Kobe, so the defense that she was out for a money ploy doesn't jibe with me--it's not difficult to not be accused of raping someone...

But it was handled how it was handled and that's it to me. I deal with the facts and I don't speculate further, though there's obviously room that Kobe may have committed a vicious crime there...

His persona was never as a likable guy anyway, until his Retirement Season. So I don't think anyone will forget Kobe had all kinds of character flaws, but he did treat basketball fans to 20 years of highlights and unbelievable moments. It's widely acknowledged that he's missing at least one more MVP. And more than any other single player, he was the bridge from Michael's exit to Lebron's rise. At best he may barely be Top 10, but the bottom line truth is wherever he lands in the hierarchy, if we can only name 10, 11, 12, 15 players greater than Kobe in the entirety of the NBA history, there can be no doubt that clearly means he's one of the all-time greatest...
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Old 12-20-2017, 01:44 PM
 
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I have Kobe in the Top 8-10 and I consider him to be the 2nd best shooting guard of all-time.

I did love the double retirement of his numbers, the stat list under each of them were worthy of HOF entry, that was pretty cool to see.

I can see him being called the "greatest laker" considering Magics career was shortened and Kareem and Shaq had a lot of years with other teams.

If Kareem had played all his years with the Lakers then I think he'd hold that title by any reasonable criteria of comparison.
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Old 12-20-2017, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
He wasn't efficient nor was he all that clutch, but he had the reputation as a gunner (think Brett Favre here for a comparable football reference) and those who played against him feared him. He's worthy of plenty of praise...
I was thinking about this during his jersey retirement ceremony. Why does he have such a well-known reputation for being clutch? The most notable Kobe performance I can recall in a clutch situation was against the Suns, which was a series the Lakers went on to lose in part because Kobe was not very clutch in Game 7. Horry and Fisher hit all of the memorable shots during Kobe's first championship run and Artest bailed him out in Game 7 against the Celtics. He doesn't have many Playoff moments that stand out to me the way Jordan, Isiah or even Lebron now has with his supreme performance against the Dubs a couple of years ago.

Kobe is an ATG at creating hype for himself. He conducted his own farewell tour, did his special on Showtime, and created several other opportunities for players, coaches and fans to talk about his greatness and place in basketball lore. He's like the co-worker who organizes his own farewell happy hour. People who are well-liked and respected at work never have to do that.
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Old 12-20-2017, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
I like #8 Kobe better...he seemed more happy and original...kinda odd that Kobe became more “like Mike” gesture/personality wise as he got older. Usually people stop acting by about 30.
I agree. When my wife asked me to sum up Kobe's career relative to other greats, the first thing that came to mind was "Like Mike, but not as good." And the "like Mike" part is only in reference to his style of play, not his achievements and clutchness.

People often say that Lebron will never be able to escape Jordan's shadow, but I think that's only true for Kobe. Lebron has put his own unique stamp on the game as a playmaking powerforward who can play every position on court. Kobe is Jordan-lite. If I were constructing a starting roster of ATGs, I would include Jordan and Lebron, but there would be no point in including Kobe since I would already have the real thing rather than an imitation.

Also, I used to think Kobe would have been an obstacle for Jordan had their primes coincided. Now I think Kobe would have been as much of an obstacle as Penny was when he played with Shaq.
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Old 12-20-2017, 02:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I was thinking about this during his jersey retirement ceremony. Why does he have such a well-known reputation for being clutch? The most notable Kobe performance I can recall in a clutch situation was against the Suns, which was a series the Lakers went on to lose in part because Kobe was not very clutch in Game 7. Horry and Fisher hit all of the memorable shots during Kobe's first championship run and Artest bailed him out in Game 7 against the Celtics. He doesn't have many Playoff moments that stand out to me the way Jordan, Isiah or even Lebron now has with his supreme performance against the Dubs a couple of years ago.

Kobe is an ATG at creating hype for himself. He conducted his own farewell tour, did his special on Showtime, and created several other opportunities for players, coaches and fans to talk about his greatness and place in basketball lore. He's like the co-worker who organizes his own farewell happy hour. People who are well-liked and respected at work never have to do that.
I also think his reputation as a hard-worker and a guy that trains long hours is overrated.
Not saying he doesn't work hard, but most players don't talk about their training hours/regime, so how did we ever determine that Kobe worked harder than everyone else?
For all we know there may be 50 players in the NBA today that work harder than he did.

As for the clutch rating, I know he's not clutch in terms of the final minute of games, and he's not clutch in terms of shooting% in 4th quarters.....but he attempts huge amounts of shots in the 4th quarter so I assume he probably scores a lot of points in 4th quarters, probably has scored more than anyone ever in 4th quarters. So maybe clutch is not the right word for him, but he's a very dominant finisher, even if its only because of volume shooting.
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Old 12-20-2017, 02:57 PM
 
5,431 posts, read 1,545,163 times
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Also, I used to think Kobe would have been an obstacle for Jordan had their primes coincided. Now I think Kobe would have been as much of an obstacle as Penny was when he played with Shaq.
Imagine how many horrible shots Kobe would force up if Prime Jordan was defending him.
Kobe struggled horribly with the best Detroit and Boston teams.
Jordan and Pippen double-teaming Kobe would be a nightmare, especially if its the version of Jordan that averaged 1.6 blocks and 3.2 steals!
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