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Old 12-20-2017, 03:01 PM
 
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Perhaps the Jordan imitatation has a little to do with Kobe’s age. MJ was at the peak of his greatness when Kobe was coming into his own personality wise (around 13-18) and at the time all teens wanted to be like Mike. Lebron is a little younger so I doubt he was able to fully take in Jordan mania like Kobe. Lebron was just 13 when Jordan retired in 98. How much memory could he really have of say ‘89-‘98 Jordan?
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Old 12-20-2017, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I was thinking about this during his jersey retirement ceremony. Why does he have such a well-known reputation for being clutch? The most notable Kobe performance I can recall in a clutch situation was against the Suns, which was a series the Lakers went on to lose in part because Kobe was not very clutch in Game 7. Horry and Fisher hit all of the memorable shots during Kobe's first championship run and Artest bailed him out in Game 7 against the Celtics. He doesn't have many Playoff moments that stand out to me the way Jordan, Isiah or even Lebron now has with his supreme performance against the Dubs a couple of years ago.

Kobe is an ATG at creating hype for himself. He conducted his own farewell tour, did his special on Showtime, and created several other opportunities for players, coaches and fans to talk about his greatness and place in basketball lore. He's like the co-worker who organizes his own farewell happy hour. People who are well-liked and respected at work never have to do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Also, I used to think Kobe would have been an obstacle for Jordan had their primes coincided. Now I think Kobe would have been as much of an obstacle as Penny was when he played with Shaq.
I think your second quoted statement speaks to your first one i quoted and also to the fact that as spectators who watched Kobe, while he's become more likeable in our eyes, we also view him as a not as other-worldly as we thought he was during his playing days...

Back then scoring the ball, more than any other individual statistic, was seen as the hallmark of a great basketball player. I'm younger than you but even I can remember when if you shot mid-40s overall (43/44/45/46%), that wasn't considered poor shooting. If you could score at an elite level, your status was elevated, no matter how you got to your totals. So understanding that, that was how the game was viewed once upon a time, it makes sense that we thought Kobe was clutch--he didn't have a ton of game-winners, but he sure scored alot, and even when it wasn't falling for him, he kept shooting. It added to his mystique and we accepted him as a clutch performer because of it, because he just WOULD.NOT.STOP.SHOOTING...no matter how bad he was!

I've been saying this for some time now, several years, but an apt football comparison would be Brett Favre. A guy who was a great quarterback no doubt, but he played in a time where analytics and efficiency wasn't a staple. Like Kobe, Favre was seen as the preeminent tough guy, a bit if a man's man. He played 20 years, broke and set a ton of records, and was known as a complete shooter, a gunner who had five seasons where he threw at least equal or more touchdowns than interceptions, but we admired his fearlessness. I saw Favre repeatedly in bad games throw the damn ball in double coverage, triple even; throw some of the most ill-advised passes with the game on the line. But he was a champion, and even more than that, had the heart of a champion, and no one can ever say they saw Favre quit on his team or shy away from the moment, the stage, or the pressure. He welcomed it...

The flipside is oftentimes he threw his team into poor circumstances, and often couldn't throw his team out of it. He has some memorable performances but in retrospect he isn't viewed as clutch or efficient as football viewed him in his playing days. Certainly one of the greatest to play his position ever, but maybe not as great as we assumed him during his career, certainly not in an analytics era that glaringly highlight him with one of the worst turnover ratios ever, not a really high completion percentage, etc. But he was a fighter and a true gunner and that alone made opponents respect and even fear Favre...

He was the football Kobe Bryant....
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Old 12-21-2017, 07:37 AM
 
5,444 posts, read 1,550,803 times
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I wonder what the reason is for Kobe's lack of shooting efficiency....especially in the NBA Finals.

I've been told he's the hardest worker anyone has ever seen, so surely its not a technical issue, as he's surely refined his game completely....

I've also been told that his basketball IQ is extremely high, so surely the horrible shot selection is not due to a lack of intelligence....

And I've always been told he's the most competitive person since Jordan.....but Jordan was known for perhaps the best shot selection ever, while Kobe is known for some of the worst, and surely being competitive isn't to blame for poor shot selection....
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,263,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
I've been saying this for some time now, several years, but an apt football comparison would be Brett Favre. A guy who was a great quarterback no doubt, but he played in a time where analytics and efficiency wasn't a staple. Like Kobe, Favre was seen as the preeminent tough guy, a bit if a man's man. He played 20 years, broke and set a ton of records, and was known as a complete shooter, a gunner who had five seasons where he threw at least equal or more touchdowns than interceptions, but we admired his fearlessness. I saw Favre repeatedly in bad games throw the damn ball in double coverage, triple even; throw some of the most ill-advised passes with the game on the line. But he was a champion, and even more than that, had the heart of a champion, and no one can ever say they saw Favre quit on his team or shy away from the moment, the stage, or the pressure. He welcomed it...

He was the football Kobe Bryant....
This is where your comparison breaks down. Kobe quit on his team in Game 7 against the Suns to prove a point. I generally agree with your comparison, but I think Kobe was more selfish than Favre and cared much more about his legacy than winning games.
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Old 12-21-2017, 10:04 AM
 
17,318 posts, read 10,225,457 times
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Chris Paul injured.

Again.

He's one of my favorite players, a sight to behold when he's on, but you have to wonder at age 32 how much longer his body can hold up.
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Old 12-22-2017, 12:13 AM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
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Warriors on a ten-game win streak right now despite missing Curry, Green, Iguodala, Livingston and Pachulia.
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Old 12-22-2017, 01:09 AM
 
11,680 posts, read 7,055,962 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
Warriors on a ten-game win streak right now despite missing Curry, Green, Iguodala, Livingston and Pachulia.
The Warriors would probably be a playoff team with Durant/Klay surrounded by decent role players.
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Old 12-25-2017, 03:44 PM
 
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What can the Warriors get for Curry in a trade?
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Old 12-25-2017, 04:38 PM
 
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It seems LeBron has lost the respect of the refs. Unless he gets a concussion he will not get a call while Durant gets everything.
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Old 12-25-2017, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
12,201 posts, read 10,427,566 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 87112 View Post
It seems LeBron has lost the respect of the refs. Unless he gets a concussion he will not get a call while Durant gets everything.
I hope you're not talking about that ball knocked out of James' hands at the end, because that was cleaaan.
JR Smith's shot, on the other hand...
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