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Old 12-27-2017, 08:30 AM
 
2,833 posts, read 1,773,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Yeah TT has gone Hollywood after signing that fat contract and jumping on the equivalent kardashian butt.

I've been down on him since the playoffs last year and wow....talk about a decline.
Haha, exactly the issue.


He's always been an effort player. The effort has gone away recently. He was developing a nice back to the basket game and somewhat of interior defender. Now he's just a catch and score guy and defensive blunder machine.
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Old 01-02-2018, 10:41 AM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,872,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
IT hopefully makes the Warriors backcourt chase him around and their bigs to get out position/maybe foul/ maybe give another guy an easier look when he gets to the rim. If at the end of the day we get a few stops and he does the above - it's a plus.
I agree that's certainly the plan. It is easier said than done--even if IT is as explosive now as he was last year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
Too many people try to look at a matchup with the Warriors as matching their length and focus energy on stopping them. The Warriors are gonna get theirs when they possess the ball. The Cavs have the get theirs on offensive end and hopefully collapse that D get them in foul trouble or get physical enough (as they did in 16) and frustrate and tire the crap out them
With the exception of the Rockets, teams try to slow down the game against the Warriors. Getting stops is ideal. Lots of fouls & half court to half court basketball is great. Teams don't want the Warriors running. That is a recipe for an L. The Cavs had a great offense last year, but they couldn't run & gun with the Warriors. That has not changed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
TT was game planned out last year (2 -3 bodies on him when the ball went up) His energy stunk. He was a complete liability on the offensive end missing 3-4 foot putbacks.
He was gameplanned out. Zaza is excellent at boxing out and does a great job protecting the paint--Draymond, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
Green and Wade are good pieces for the Finals. They scored and defended this year
It didn't look like it on Christmas. Wade's a smart player, but his athleticism has slid quite far. I don't see what the Cavs can do with him defensively other than try to hide him on Zaza, Iguodala, and Livingston--which means harder assignments for the rest of the squad. I would be surprised to see Green get more than 10 minutes a night in the Finals.
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:19 PM
 
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Harden missing a couple of weeks will probably help his MVP chances if Houston lose a bunch (even though they weren't winning much recently - because of injuries to others).
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:30 PM
 
51,858 posts, read 41,758,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amenalot View Post
Harden missing a couple of weeks will probably help his MVP chances if Houston lose a bunch (even though they weren't winning much recently - because of injuries to others).
Good point. IDK....it seems I don't quite understand the MVP voters these days so any prediction on my part has as much accuracy as a broken clock anymore.
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:50 PM
 
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I know he won't win it, but I'd enjoy seeing Irving win MVP.
Boston would struggle to make the playoffs if they didn't have Irving this year.
Their offense would not be enough, and they've won a bunch of close games because of Irving.
Their defense would give them a shot, but I still doubt they'd make the playoffs without Irving.
His assists and rebounds may not be as big as Harden/LeBron/Westbrook, but I think he's just as valuable to his team as they are to their teams.
Its like with Michael Jordan, apart from the 32.5ppg 8.0rpg 8apg season, he generally didn't have the big rebound/assist numbers that the stat-padders have, but he was the difference between winning and losing because the opposition had no answer for him.
Irving's influence is like Jordan but without the brilliant defense.
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Old 01-02-2018, 01:24 PM
 
11,679 posts, read 7,040,185 times
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I don’t see how Kyrie isn’t in the conversation if the Celtics win around 60 games and finish with a better record than the finals team he was traded from. 25/5/3 ain’t a bad stat line...plus he’s shooting 49/40/90. This team might actually be good enough to beat Cleveland had they not lost an all star to injury.
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Old 01-02-2018, 01:24 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,872,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amenalot View Post
I know he won't win it, but I'd enjoy seeing Irving win MVP.
Boston would struggle to make the playoffs if they didn't have Irving this year.
Their offense would not be enough, and they've won a bunch of close games because of Irving.
Their defense would give them a shot, but I still doubt they'd make the playoffs without Irving.
His assists and rebounds may not be as big as Harden/LeBron/Westbrook, but I think he's just as valuable to his team as they are to their teams.
Its like with Michael Jordan, apart from the 32.5ppg 8.0rpg 8apg season, he generally didn't have the big rebound/assist numbers that the stat-padders have, but he was the difference between winning and losing because the opposition had no answer for him.
Irving's influence is like Jordan but without the brilliant defense.
Is this sarcasm? That's the only explanation I can see for such absurd comparisons. Boston is good because of its defense. Irving is not the reason for that. Irving looks the same as he was in the LBJ years in Cleveland--a great scorer, not much of a distributor, and a poor defender. He does not deserve mention in the same breath as Harden, LBJ, or Jordan. It's just crazy.

Boston looks about the same as last year. They had an impressive win streak, but they are playing ball like a 55 win team.

There is no justification for an Irving MVP. It would be less bad than the Westbrook special, but it would be bad.
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Old 01-02-2018, 01:40 PM
 
11,679 posts, read 7,040,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Is this sarcasm? That's the only explanation I can see for such absurd comparisons. Boston is good because of its defense. Irving is not the reason for that. Irving looks the same as he was in the LBJ years in Cleveland--a great scorer, not much of a distributor, and a poor defender. He does not deserve mention in the same breath as Harden, LBJ, or Jordan. It's just crazy.

Boston looks about the same as last year. They had an impressive win streak, but they are playing ball like a 55 win team.

There is no justification for an Irving MVP. It would be less bad than the Westbrook special, but it would be bad.
Yeah, a player tied for 5th in VORP and 4th in win shares, has nothing to with a team having the best record in the east.

Somehow Kyrie wins the award for best player that has nothing to do with his team winning games. Or would that be Curry who’s team won about 12 straight with him in suit?
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Old 01-02-2018, 01:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
I don’t see how Kyrie isn’t in the conversation if the Celtics win around 60 games and finish with a better record than the finals team he was traded from. 25/5/3 ain’t a bad stat line...plus he’s shooting 49/40/90. This team might actually be good enough to beat Cleveland had they not lost an all star to injury.
I agree, I mean I know Irving won't win MVP (because the voters fall for stat-padders), and I know Boston's great defense is not because of Irving (although he's been very good defensively for portions of the season, and far better than last year), but I also know Boston probably won't make the playoffs without Irving.
LeBron got Cleveland into a winning position in that game 7, but Irving actually won the ring for him.
And in Boston its the team defense that gets them into a winning position, but Irving actually wins it.
Irving is a winner, a true finisher in the mold of Jordan (again, in terms of offense exclusively, not all-round domination).
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Old 01-02-2018, 03:07 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,872,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
Yeah, a player tied for 5th in VORP and 4th in win shares, has nothing to with a team having the best record in the east.

Somehow Kyrie wins the award for best player that has nothing to do with his team winning games. Or would that be Curry who’s team won about 12 straight with him in suit?
VORP & Win Shares? He's 4th & 5th & if your argument for the Kyrie MVP is that he's 4th in VORP & 5th in Win Shares then your argument is straight crazy.

Harden is in pole position for MVP, with LBJ at his heels. Kyrie has no business with them. Curry & Durant are also well ahead of Kyrie in the MVP race. There's no argument for Kyrie above any of those 4.

The Warriors played great defense to win w/o Curry. Their offense was much less fluid. Curry reminded you that he is still '15-'16 Sky**cker against Memphis. Curry has better shooting splits, higher PER, more assists, more rebounds, more points, more steals, higher ORtg, and better plus/minus than Kyrie. Steph also sets more (and better) screens, has more gravity, has more hockey assists, and is a better floor general and team defender.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amenalot View Post
I agree, I mean I know Irving won't win MVP (because the voters fall for stat-padders), and I know Boston's great defense is not because of Irving (although he's been very good defensively for portions of the season, and far better than last year), but I also know Boston probably won't make the playoffs without Irving.
LeBron got Cleveland into a winning position in that game 7, but Irving actually won the ring for him.
And in Boston its the team defense that gets them into a winning position, but Irving actually wins it.
Irving is a winner, a true finisher in the mold of Jordan (again, in terms of offense exclusively, not all-round domination).
Boston made the playoffs the three prior seasons. LBJ (obviously) was the best Cav in the LBJ/Kyrie years. Irving is not the best player in the league. He is not nearly the offensive force Jordan was. Jordan averaged over 30 in 8 of his 13 Bulls seasons (Kyrie has never averaged 30). Jordan averaged lower than 26 only once in his Bulls seasons (Kyrie has never averaged 26). Jordan won six titles as the best player on his team. Kyrie won one title and he was indisputably not the best player on that team.

It was a different era, but Jordan had greater IQ & athleticism than Kyrie ever has. His defensive ability and effort were much higher.

Westbrook was a stat padder last year. Harden this year is leading one of the top teams in the league with an update to 7 Seconds or Less in Houston. His numbers are great, but they are winning numbers leading an offense comparable to that of the Warriors (different style, equally lethal). Taking this year in isolation--would you really rather have Irving than Harden? The Rockets have higher Pythagorean wins than Boston. The Rockets are playing like a 60 win team and the second best team in the league (in spite of Chris Paul & Clint Capela missing a lot of time).
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