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Old 01-02-2018, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Here or There
3,960 posts, read 2,512,283 times
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Thomas returns for Cleveland tonight against Portland. I know they wont get chemistry in just one game, but I do want to see how he integrates with this Cavalier team.
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Old 01-02-2018, 08:38 PM
 
11,679 posts, read 7,048,359 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
VORP & Win Shares? He's 4th & 5th & if your argument for the Kyrie MVP is that he's 4th in VORP & 5th in Win Shares then your argument is straight crazy.

Harden is in pole position for MVP, with LBJ at his heels. Kyrie has no business with them. Curry & Durant are also well ahead of Kyrie in the MVP race. There's no argument for Kyrie above any of those 4.

The Warriors played great defense to win w/o Curry. Their offense was much less fluid. Curry reminded you that he is still '15-'16 Sky**cker against Memphis. Curry has better shooting splits, higher PER, more assists, more rebounds, more points, more steals, higher ORtg, and better plus/minus than Kyrie. Steph also sets more (and better) screens, has more gravity, has more hockey assists, and is a better floor general and team defender.
So a player needs to rank higher than 4th or 5th in advanced stats to be in the conversation? Does that mean you completely agree with Westbrook winning MVP since he was by far #1 in VORP, #1 in offensive BPM, #2 in defensive BPM and #1 in PER? Oh, but let me guess, other players derseved the award despite not ranking as highly as Westbrook. Straight crazy logic.

Hmm, you are on record saying everyone currently playing for the Warriors makes their teammates better yet Kyrie plays with none of those players. Doesn’t that put him at a disadvantage?

I’m having trouble seeing where Curry is ahead of Kyrie in any kind of MVP discussion. They are basically separated by 2 points, 2 rebounds and 1 assist. Shooting percentages are almost identical. Kyrie obviously has a heavier burden as he’s NOT on a team that will win 12 straight games in his absence.
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Old 01-02-2018, 11:56 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,875,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
So a player needs to rank higher than 4th or 5th in advanced stats to be in the conversation? Does that mean you completely agree with Westbrook winning MVP since he was by far #1 in VORP, #1 in offensive BPM, #2 in defensive BPM and #1 in PER? Oh, but let me guess, other players derseved the award despite not ranking as highly as Westbrook. Straight crazy logic.

Hmm, you are on record saying everyone currently playing for the Warriors makes their teammates better yet Kyrie plays with none of those players. Doesn’t that put him at a disadvantage?

I’m having trouble seeing where Curry is ahead of Kyrie in any kind of MVP discussion. They are basically separated by 2 points, 2 rebounds and 1 assist. Shooting percentages are almost identical. Kyrie obviously has a heavier burden as he’s NOT on a team that will win 12 straight games in his absence.
Your guy is the same player he was last year—nowhere near MVP caliber. Russ, as you should know, was a terrible MCP choice.

Curry’s TS & eFG are significantly better than Irving’s, as are his plus minus, PER, floor generalship, team defense, and gravity. He’s better in pretty much every statistical category and is a much better player.
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,242,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Is this sarcasm? That's the only explanation I can see for such absurd comparisons. Boston is good because of its defense. Irving is not the reason for that. Irving looks the same as he was in the LBJ years in Cleveland--a great scorer, not much of a distributor, and a poor defender. He does not deserve mention in the same breath as Harden, LBJ, or Jordan. It's just crazy.

Boston looks about the same as last year. They had an impressive win streak, but they are playing ball like a 55 win team.

There is no justification for an Irving MVP. It would be less bad than the Westbrook special, but it would be bad.
Steph Curry isn't that good. His team beat the Rockets in the playoffs without him. And he got shut down by the Thunder and Cavs. He needed KD to come to the Bay and save him.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:15 AM
 
5,432 posts, read 1,545,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Steph Curry isn't that good. His team beat the Rockets in the playoffs without him. And he got shut down by the Thunder and Cavs. He needed KD to come to the Bay and save him.
Exactly.
Curry is not reliable on the biggest stage.
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Old 01-03-2018, 01:47 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,875,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Steph Curry isn't that good. His team beat the Rockets in the playoffs without him. And he got shut down by the Thunder and Cavs. He needed KD to come to the Bay and save him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amenalot View Post
Exactly.
Curry is not reliable on the biggest stage.
I see foolish people
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Old 01-03-2018, 01:56 PM
 
2,837 posts, read 1,776,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
I agree that's certainly the plan. It is easier said than done--even if IT is as explosive now as he was last year.



With the exception of the Rockets, teams try to slow down the game against the Warriors. Getting stops is ideal. Lots of fouls & half court to half court basketball is great. Teams don't want the Warriors running. That is a recipe for an L. The Cavs had a great offense last year, but they couldn't run & gun with the Warriors. That has not changed.



He was gameplanned out. Zaza is excellent at boxing out and does a great job protecting the paint--Draymond, too.



It didn't look like it on Christmas. Wade's a smart player, but his athleticism has slid quite far. I don't see what the Cavs can do with him defensively other than try to hide him on Zaza, Iguodala, and Livingston--which means harder assignments for the rest of the squad. I would be surprised to see Green get more than 10 minutes a night in the Finals.
The Cavs couldn't muster enough offense from the second unit. Kyle Korver being the greatest example he misses a wide open corner three to ice Game 3. Games 1 and 2 were turnover ridden poorly shot games. Games 3 and 5 were great examples of Lebron and Kyrie carrying an enormous load not having enough to close out those games. I give the Cavs credit for addressing those depth concerns and will see if it is enough.


This is a much deeper unit this year.


The Rockets and Cavs have enough horsepower this year to make life difficult for the Warriors defense, maybe put some bigs in foul trouble maybe create tired legs on the other end.


Cavs still need a rim protector.


Green and Wade have played better than expected this year. Tune into a few Cavs games and find out.
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Old 01-03-2018, 02:00 PM
 
2,837 posts, read 1,776,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
I see foolish people
I'm not going to downplay his abilities. He's an overrated defender. One of the best shooters in recent history. You've made him out to be the best player in NBA and honestly I can't agree with that, but he's a great player no less.


I think KD is a perfect fit with him. As an opposing fan and Warrior hater, I can respect the fact that it is nearly impossible to defend the Warriors when you have to come out on Curry at 35 feet and leave huge open space for a guy like KD to operate. In 15 and 16 the Warriors shot over people especially the Cavs but in 17 they schemed them with KD just destroying Cleveland in that open space created by trapping Curry at 35 feet out.
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Old 01-03-2018, 03:13 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,875,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
The Cavs couldn't muster enough offense from the second unit. Kyle Korver being the greatest example he misses a wide open corner three to ice Game 3. Games 1 and 2 were turnover ridden poorly shot games. Games 3 and 5 were great examples of Lebron and Kyrie carrying an enormous load not having enough to close out those games. I give the Cavs credit for addressing those depth concerns and will see if it is enough.
I think the Cavs' biggest offensive problem was that the offense was broken when LBJ sat. Korver missed an open 3, which is tough, but it happens. IT, if he is the same player as last year, solves the offensive problem: he can run an offense while LBJ sits. He's a more versatile offensive weapon than Kyrie--mainly because he is a greater threat to pass. Love will be a prime beneficiary of IT's versatility.

The Cavs' biggest problem last year was defense. The Warriors averaged over 121 in 5 Finals games, shooting .595 TS%. The Cavs offered no more resistance in a five game Finals than the Warriors' average regular season opponent.

The Cavs shot .568 TS% & scored just under 115 per game in the Finals. That TS% is down from .580 in the regular season & the scoring (reflective of the higher pace) is up from 110. The Cavs increased their pace and decreased their offensive efficiency. The Warriors played about their usual pace and their efficiency remained about the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
This is a much deeper unit this year.
I think they are just better (if IT is healthy). Crowder is maybe a tick better than Shump. IT is better than Kyrie. Wade is better than R Jeff & D Will. Jeff Green is better than Liggins. Calderon/Rose are better than Kay Felder & D Will. But Wade, Rose, and Calderon are all old/unreliable due to injury. Korver & JR Smith are a year older (and that's not in a good way).

Jeff Green is a wing who is not a real scoring threat and is not a very good defender.

I think the Cavs remain reliant on their stars. The big question is whether IT's added dimension is enough. This year's team has been worse defensively to this point. After LBJ, Shump was their best wing defender last year. Maybe Crowder will work himself into better defensive performance. Maybe Shump will come back capable on the defensive end. Or maybe the Cavs will rely on 34 year old D Wade to turn back the clock for 4 games in June . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
The Rockets and Cavs have enough horsepower this year to make life difficult for the Warriors defense, maybe put some bigs in foul trouble maybe create tired legs on the other end.
The Rockets have been the 2nd best team in the league this year--and they can clearly play with anyone. Their big need is health. They are not a very good defensive team, but their offense is sublime. They will be a much tougher out for SAS/GSW this year. Speaking of San Antonio, we are finally getting to see the 4th contender with a near-full loadout. Will their offense pick up as Kawhi is reintegrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
Cavs still need a rim protector.
I'm not so sure. A long, mobile 5 who can run the floor would be great, but I don't see how they find & add such a player. Realistically, TT is that guy. Say the Cavs had Gortat & they played him 20 min/night with Love/Green at 4. With Love at 4, they've got two bigs who can't switch on screens, meaning IT/LBJ/ Wade have to fight through screens and stay with the ball handler in a pick & roll. I don't like their chances.

With Green at 4, the problem is mitigated on the defensive end. But there's a new problem on the offensive end: they no longer have floor spacing. Teams aren't worried about Green or Gortat shooting. They can pack the paint and force LBJ/IT/Wade to create offense at the perimeter. Sub out Wade for Korver, and it helps but . . . you're offering the opposing defense control of the paint and that's putting a lot of eggs in the perimeter basket--especially for a team with one of the greatest interior offensive forces in basketball history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
Green and Wade have played better than expected this year. Tune into a few Cavs games and find out.
20 minutes a night at the regular season level is pretty different from 20 minutes in a Finals game. Wade's a high IQ player who can still handle the ball and add some scoring. Do you really trust him to chase Klay around screens or slow Kevin Durant at this stage of his career? I think that's asking too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
I'm not going to downplay his abilities. He's an overrated defender. One of the best shooters in recent history. You've made him out to be the best player in NBA and honestly I can't agree with that, but he's a great player no less.
He's the best shooter in NBA history, and it's not close. He's also a high IQ playmaker, top flight ball handler, and excellent finisher around the rim. He's also just a year removed from one of the greatest seasons in NBA history. He is a good team defender from the PG position. If you want to win basketball games right now in the NBA, I think the only players you can justify before him are LBJ & James Harden. I'll take Curry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
I think KD is a perfect fit with him. As an opposing fan and Warrior hater, I can respect the fact that it is nearly impossible to defend the Warriors when you have to come out on Curry at 35 feet and leave huge open space for a guy like KD to operate. In 15 and 16 the Warriors shot over people especially the Cavs but in 17 they schemed them with KD just destroying Cleveland in that open space created by trapping Curry at 35 feet out.
This is absolutely true. Curry also adjusted his game to integrate KD into the team last year. The Memphis game was a reminder of the supernova we saw in '15-16. It's still there, but he is accommodating his team.
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Old 01-03-2018, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,242,183 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
I see foolish people
Fail.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyb2VFg8wKY
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