U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Basketball
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-21-2017, 10:52 AM
 
11,679 posts, read 7,050,301 times
Reputation: 6387

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Not necessarily. If we're talking about a decade time window, who would pick Michael Jordan over Grant Hill or Penny Hardaway in 1996?
Not too many people pick Hill or Penny for a 10 year period beginning in any year because we know their bodies will give out after 4-5 years. From ‘01-‘10 Kobe is giving you 29/6/5 during the regular season while playing about 75 games per season. He’s also giving you that same 29/6/5 in the playoffs. If the year is 1996 and I have to pick a player for the next 10 years, I’d probably go with Shaq because I know MJ is basically retired after 98. Shaq will give you a Jordan level impact for about 8 of those 10 years.

And I’m talking more about players who’s careers ran somewhat concurrently - Dirk/Kobe/KG/TMac/Iverson/Duncan were all pretty much in their primes and around the same age during the 2000s so it’s easy to ask who would you take for the 2000s decade.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-21-2017, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,247,479 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
And I’m talking more about players who’s careers ran somewhat concurrently - Dirk/Kobe/KG/TMac/Iverson/Duncan were all pretty much in their primes and around the same age during the 2000s so it’s easy to ask who would you take for the 2000s decade.
I figured that much. I only wrote what I wrote to point out that the two things aren't always one in the same.

I wouldn't think about this question in terms of who I'd build a team around for a decade because a few of these players had legitimate claims of being the best around at different times during largely concurrent careers. This is really a more season by season analysis. It's not like the last 5 years where other players win MVPs yet we still know who the real best player in the League is (Lebron). I don't think any one player from the 00s, minus Shaq from his Laker days, had a firm grip on the mantle of "best player in basketball," so the analysis, imo, is about who was the player when.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-21-2017, 01:07 PM
 
11,679 posts, read 7,050,301 times
Reputation: 6387
A season by season breakdown is interesting to think about and worthy of discussion. I’m simply adding another layer and pointing out that it could diminish a player who’s say consistently top 3 in the league. And not that I’m trying to defend Kobe, but I’ve heard people say “well he was ONLY the best player maybe 1 year”. Well that doesn’t take in to account the depth of talent or totality of a player’s accomplishments over a long period of time. The 2000s were pretty stacked having KG, Shaq, Kobe, TMac, Nash, Dirk, Iverson, Kidd, Duncan, Pierce, Wade and Lebron all having prime seasons in the 2000s. I think any of those players at their best will compete for an MVP (and they did throughout the decade). So yeah, I agree that no one player had a death grip on “best player” during the decade.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2017, 12:27 PM
 
5,432 posts, read 1,546,102 times
Reputation: 2264
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2017, 08:44 PM
 
51,945 posts, read 41,806,773 times
Reputation: 32407
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
A season by season breakdown is interesting to think about and worthy of discussion. I’m simply adding another layer and pointing out that it could diminish a player who’s say consistently top 3 in the league. And not that I’m trying to defend Kobe, but I’ve heard people say “well he was ONLY the best player maybe 1 year”. Well that doesn’t take in to account the depth of talent or totality of a player’s accomplishments over a long period of time. The 2000s were pretty stacked having KG, Shaq, Kobe, TMac, Nash, Dirk, Iverson, Kidd, Duncan, Pierce, Wade and Lebron all having prime seasons in the 2000s. I think any of those players at their best will compete for an MVP (and they did throughout the decade). So yeah, I agree that no one player had a death grip on “best player” during the decade.
I absolutely agree with you.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Kobe, I think he has 1 clear year as the best in the league and then arguments could be made about 1 more perhaps. I 100% agree, that's a beastly accomplishment and frankly Kobe's strength is similar to Jordans in that it was just a peak it was staying at a high level for a very long time which is why I regard Kareem so highly.

This brings up the entire problem of comparison and that is setting the rules or parameters.

Best Season? Draft for the next 10 year? Draft for a career? Take for 3 seasons?

It's just so hard to compare the greats.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-23-2017, 07:44 AM
 
5,432 posts, read 1,546,102 times
Reputation: 2264
One thing is for sure, 2000-2010 was definitely not Kobe's era.
I don't think anyone owned 2000-2010.
Shaq, Duncan, Kobe shared it, with a sprinkling of KG and Wade.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-23-2017, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,212 posts, read 2,831,702 times
Reputation: 4502
Quote:
Originally Posted by amenalot View Post
One thing is for sure, 2000-2010 was definitely not Kobe's era.
I don't think anyone owned 2000-2010.
Shaq, Duncan, Kobe shared it, with a sprinkling of KG and Wade.
More Kobe and Duncan than anyone else and if you say Wade you have to say Lebron...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-23-2017, 03:37 PM
 
11,679 posts, read 7,050,301 times
Reputation: 6387
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
More Kobe and Duncan than anyone else and if you say Wade you have to say Lebron...
I think some folks will include Shaq because during that decade he went to 5 finals, won 4 championships and 3 finals MVPs. Shaq did a lot in the first half of the decade but I’m not sure you take him over Kobe or Duncan given how he fell off the last 4 or so years of the 2000s.

The best of Shaq would probably be the 10 years between 95 and 04. 5 finals, 3 rings and 3 finals MVPs while averaging 27/12/3 on 58% shooting.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-25-2017, 08:08 AM
 
5,432 posts, read 1,546,102 times
Reputation: 2264
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
More Kobe and Duncan than anyone else and if you say Wade you have to say Lebron...
No, LeBron never won a ring from 2000-2010.
Wade won a ring and so did KG, so that's why I said a 'sprinkling of Wade and KG'.
You have to win a ring to be in the conversation.
Regular season dominance isn't worth a thing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-26-2017, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,212 posts, read 2,831,702 times
Reputation: 4502
Quote:
Originally Posted by amenalot View Post
No, LeBron never won a ring from 2000-2010.
Wade won a ring and so did KG, so that's why I said a 'sprinkling of Wade and KG'.
You have to win a ring to be in the conversation.
Regular season dominance isn't worth a thing.
Uh, The Mailman and Stockton never won a ring in the 90s but they were two of the top players if that decade. Dirk never won a ring in the 2000s but he was clearly a Top 10 player in the decade. We can jump back and forth between decades to blow down this flimsy theory of yours...

Lebron was a Top 10 player in the 2000s. It defies logic to say that he wasn't, and it defies logic to say that he wasn't better than Wade:

--Lebron was ROY with stronger numbers than Wade in their rookie seasons, a year Wade missed 25% of anyway. LeBron only missed 3 games...
--Year 2, Lebron was better...
--Year 3, Lebron was better...
--Years 4 and 5, Wade missed 62 games. That's 38 percent of possible games played...
--Year 6, Lebron was better...

Lebron was #9 in MVP voting in his 2003-04 ROY campaign. The rest of the decade he finished 6th, 2nd, 5th, 4th, and won his first one in Year 6. Dwyane Wade never finished higher than Lebron in MVP voting--ever....simply, he just never was a better player than Lebron. Nobody thinks he was, and the only argument you could make is that his '06 Finals somehow elevates him above Lebron that year, or that his '09 comeback season was more impressive. Soooo...two of their six seasons in the 2000s decades are arguable, so it's still advantage Lebron, and while one can argue for Wade on the premise if those two years, it's a losing (but compelling and listenable) argument still. So could i make an argument and say Lebron won an MVP in that decade but Wade didn't?

Shaq, Iverson, Duncan, Nash, Dirk, Kobe, and Lebron all won MVPs last decade. Does that mean anything? Chauncey Billups won a Finals MVP in that decade. Is he in your 2000s Top 10?

This is one of the weakest arguments I've heard made on here in a while...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Basketball
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top