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Old 01-19-2018, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Akron, OH
1,615 posts, read 1,589,912 times
Reputation: 861

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Isnt it in his best interest to commit to the Cavs long term? That way the team can make trades, acquire draft picks etc.

Right now the Cavs are in a tough position because they have that Brooklyn draft pick. If Lebron would commit then maybe they could put together a good package to get DeAndre Jordan, Demarcus Cousins or a player of that caliber. But the Cavs dont want to trade that pick because they would be screwed if they traded that pick and Lebron left them after this season.

With players like Westbrook, Harden and Curry signing max deals it seems odd that Lebron doesnt sign one either.

The easiest path for him to get to the finals is to stay with Cleveland.
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Old 01-19-2018, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
12,199 posts, read 10,414,132 times
Reputation: 11213
He has all the leverage and no personal loyalty to the Cavs organization, so it’s not surprising. His expectations over the past couple years have been unrealistic, as the Cavs do everything he asks and he still complains about the roster, but he’s not going to find a better situation unless Houston can find a way to afford him (which they won’t). So he’s probably just holding out for the max $$$ possible.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,209 posts, read 2,827,100 times
Reputation: 4497
He's holding out for the max, but at this point, it's time for him to view his culpability in the organization's poor performances. The selfishness is beginning to get on my nerves...

I'm all for the players getting paid, but I respect you more for doing everything you can do to win. Lebron isn't doing that right now. On the one hand, I can't criticize him if he feels he deserves the right to be selfish, because he had put in the work to legitimize the Cleveland Cavaliers--this franchise was a laughingstock pre-Lebron, and they were a laughingstock when he went to Miami. But this keeping them in limbo thing, how does that align with his stated goals of wanting to win, and the organization wanting to build a winner? I support players rights to change their minds (like DeAndre did with the Mavs a few years back), but if he just gives them a definitive answer, moves can be made one way or the other...

If he says odds are he's leaving, even if he's not 100% sure, if that's where he's leaning, they could have started a constructive reshaping without a full on rebuild---->begin cutting the deadest weight (Frye, Smith) and going younger as insurance, but don't do a fire sale. Stay competitive in the event he changed his mind and stayed, but understand the goal would be to remain competitive once he leaves, if that's where his leanings were...

If he stated his desires were to stay, even if he said he wasn't 100% sure he would, if that was his leaning, then the team could have earlier worked on grabbing better players to make this a championship unit. So Lebron's indecisiveness and unwillingness to give the franchise a straight answer has hamstrung them from charting a solid course. I'm a huge Lebron fan, but this isn't an admirable character trait for him. Do you want to win or do you want to just want to look important? Do you want the money or do you really want to win?

But in complete fairness, we cannot lump the performance of this organization on Lebron's shoulders, and I wouldn't say his selfishness is either of the two biggest problems in Cleveland. The level of culpability ultimately rests on a weak and spineless front office and coaching staff. Sure, this is what happens when you exclusively cater to one player, you play to their mercy at the expense of having a balanced team and organization---but you allow yourself to be at their mercy. And you know what? This is why Riley and Arison, Pop and Buford, Stevens and Ainge, Kerr and Myers are all elite at their crafts, and Cleveland's leadership isnt. The players ****ing play; the coaches coach; the managers manage. "Leadership" that doesn't draw that distinction isn't leading at all...

The Cavs have had poor leadership their entire existence and the luck of Lebron has bailed them out many times over, but the blame rests with Gilbert for influencing bad decision making and making poor hires and fires, and the other part of the blame rests with the people he's put in positions to lead who have not done their jobs well. I'll be the first to admit, winning cures all and makes you "forget" things you probably shouldn't, and as a Lebron fan, I've been willing to forget when were winning. But:

--I was NEVER a fan of the Blatt fire. That guy was a damn good coach and certainly better than the guy they've replaced him with. Gilbert's antsiness and Griffin assumingly signing off on that fire was a major show of weakness, as the major reason for the fire was to ingratiate Lebron, instead of pitting him in his place. That team was on a 60-win pace and likely would have made The Finals anyway, you don't fire a guy performing like that, one year removed from a Finals appearance...

--I was NEVER a fan of hiring Lue, I'm not a fan of how long they've kept him, he obviously isn't a great leader. He isn't a good coach of defense, and he was probably promoted prematurely, and he helped instigate the beef with Blatt, if inadvertently. I can talk about this bum for days, fire this ass-hole already or at least put a contingency plan in place to find a better visionary in the offseason...

--in fairness to Koby Altman, he got the job and is in over his head. At some point he may be elite at this, but this franchise requires the leadership of experienced executives, not a rookie the same age as the star player. Not a fan of the Griffin fire, and listen, that guy wasn't without blame himself, but he was a B-level GM. Gilbert should have paid the damn man!

--most of the roster moves and acquisitions have been horrible. I accepted the Kyrie/IT trade, mainly because of picking up Crowder and the pick, but I only accepted it----I would have MUCH preferred the franchise to use their leverage and just not trade Kyrie. Look at this:

How Cavs, Spurs handled trade demands by stars is worlds apart How Cleveland Cavaliers, San Antonio Spurs handled trade demands is worlds apart
via @ESPN App http://es.pn/app

Furthermore, when speaking of roster moves, I supported Wade coming in because of his leadership and chemistry with Lebron. But I absolutely hated these Calderon and Rose acquisitions, who the **** thought those were good calls? Shumpert is a good player but can't be relied upon to be healthy, so we should have moved him. JR's decline was evident a year ago, should have moved him. Richard Jefferson should have been moved before the 16-17 season and why the **** is Channing Frye still on an NBA roster?

I'm only scratching the surface with my frustration with organizational moves, I won't even touch this idiot Lue and his "coaching". Winning cures all, but you know what, I'd sacrifice winning in the short-term for stability and winning in the long term, and I'm saying that as a guy who loves Lebron and want to see him win one more before he hangs it all up. Vent session over...

Lebron has a significant role in the mess and is expect more responsibility and self-accountability from my best player, but there is plenty of blame to go around in Cleveland, and he is NOT the biggest of problems there. Shame on Gilbert and the culture he's allowed to manifest there, that's making good basketball players (Crowder specifically) look poorly...
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Old 01-22-2018, 10:38 AM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,874,215 times
Reputation: 2263
Quote:
Originally Posted by ma5cmpb View Post
Isnt it in his best interest to commit to the Cavs long term? That way the team can make trades, acquire draft picks etc.

Right now the Cavs are in a tough position because they have that Brooklyn draft pick. If Lebron would commit then maybe they could put together a good package to get DeAndre Jordan, Demarcus Cousins or a player of that caliber. But the Cavs dont want to trade that pick because they would be screwed if they traded that pick and Lebron left them after this season.

With players like Westbrook, Harden and Curry signing max deals it seems odd that Lebron doesnt sign one either.

The easiest path for him to get to the finals is to stay with Cleveland.
The Cavs do not have impressive management/ownership. LBJ has his best interest at heart--forcing the Cavs to spend money to be competitive. Every year they have to prove to him that they are trying to win now in order to get him to sign. He remembers what the franchise looked like his first time around.

If there were a deal for Demarcus, it would be done. He would be the Cavs' 2nd best player in a heartbeat. If there were a deal for Deandre that kept Love & IT, it would be done (it might still get done). Curry & Harden signed max deals with teams that have proven they want to win now by adding great players to the roster, regardless of cost.

Russ' long-term signing . . . maybe he wants it for financial security (his athleticism will fall off, and it's going to be a tremendous impact on his game). Maybe it was just a bad move.

Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
He's holding out for the max, but at this point, it's time for him to view his culpability in the organization's poor performances. The selfishness is beginning to get on my nerves...

I'm all for the players getting paid, but I respect you more for doing everything you can do to win. Lebron isn't doing that right now. On the one hand, I can't criticize him if he feels he deserves the right to be selfish, because he had put in the work to legitimize the Cleveland Cavaliers--this franchise was a laughingstock pre-Lebron, and they were a laughingstock when he went to Miami. But this keeping them in limbo thing, how does that align with his stated goals of wanting to win, and the organization wanting to build a winner? I support players rights to change their minds (like DeAndre did with the Mavs a few years back), but if he just gives them a definitive answer, moves can be made one way or the other...

If he says odds are he's leaving, even if he's not 100% sure, if that's where he's leaning, they could have started a constructive reshaping without a full on rebuild---->begin cutting the deadest weight (Frye, Smith) and going younger as insurance, but don't do a fire sale. Stay competitive in the event he changed his mind and stayed, but understand the goal would be to remain competitive once he leaves, if that's where his leanings were...

If he stated his desires were to stay, even if he said he wasn't 100% sure he would, if that was his leaning, then the team could have earlier worked on grabbing better players to make this a championship unit. So Lebron's indecisiveness and unwillingness to give the franchise a straight answer has hamstrung them from charting a solid course. I'm a huge Lebron fan, but this isn't an admirable character trait for him. Do you want to win or do you want to just want to look important? Do you want the money or do you really want to win?

But in complete fairness, we cannot lump the performance of this organization on Lebron's shoulders, and I wouldn't say his selfishness is either of the two biggest problems in Cleveland. The level of culpability ultimately rests on a weak and spineless front office and coaching staff. Sure, this is what happens when you exclusively cater to one player, you play to their mercy at the expense of having a balanced team and organization---but you allow yourself to be at their mercy. And you know what? This is why Riley and Arison, Pop and Buford, Stevens and Ainge, Kerr and Myers are all elite at their crafts, and Cleveland's leadership isnt. The players ****ing play; the coaches coach; the managers manage. "Leadership" that doesn't draw that distinction isn't leading at all...

The Cavs have had poor leadership their entire existence and the luck of Lebron has bailed them out many times over, but the blame rests with Gilbert for influencing bad decision making and making poor hires and fires, and the other part of the blame rests with the people he's put in positions to lead who have not done their jobs well. I'll be the first to admit, winning cures all and makes you "forget" things you probably shouldn't, and as a Lebron fan, I've been willing to forget when were winning. But:

--I was NEVER a fan of the Blatt fire. That guy was a damn good coach and certainly better than the guy they've replaced him with. Gilbert's antsiness and Griffin assumingly signing off on that fire was a major show of weakness, as the major reason for the fire was to ingratiate Lebron, instead of pitting him in his place. That team was on a 60-win pace and likely would have made The Finals anyway, you don't fire a guy performing like that, one year removed from a Finals appearance...

--I was NEVER a fan of hiring Lue, I'm not a fan of how long they've kept him, he obviously isn't a great leader. He isn't a good coach of defense, and he was probably promoted prematurely, and he helped instigate the beef with Blatt, if inadvertently. I can talk about this bum for days, fire this ass-hole already or at least put a contingency plan in place to find a better visionary in the offseason...

--in fairness to Koby Altman, he got the job and is in over his head. At some point he may be elite at this, but this franchise requires the leadership of experienced executives, not a rookie the same age as the star player. Not a fan of the Griffin fire, and listen, that guy wasn't without blame himself, but he was a B-level GM. Gilbert should have paid the damn man!

--most of the roster moves and acquisitions have been horrible. I accepted the Kyrie/IT trade, mainly because of picking up Crowder and the pick, but I only accepted it----I would have MUCH preferred the franchise to use their leverage and just not trade Kyrie. Look at this:

How Cavs, Spurs handled trade demands by stars is worlds apart How Cleveland Cavaliers, San Antonio Spurs handled trade demands is worlds apart
via @ESPN App http://es.pn/app

Furthermore, when speaking of roster moves, I supported Wade coming in because of his leadership and chemistry with Lebron. But I absolutely hated these Calderon and Rose acquisitions, who the **** thought those were good calls? Shumpert is a good player but can't be relied upon to be healthy, so we should have moved him. JR's decline was evident a year ago, should have moved him. Richard Jefferson should have been moved before the 16-17 season and why the **** is Channing Frye still on an NBA roster?

I'm only scratching the surface with my frustration with organizational moves, I won't even touch this idiot Lue and his "coaching". Winning cures all, but you know what, I'd sacrifice winning in the short-term for stability and winning in the long term, and I'm saying that as a guy who loves Lebron and want to see him win one more before he hangs it all up. Vent session over...

Lebron has a significant role in the mess and is expect more responsibility and self-accountability from my best player, but there is plenty of blame to go around in Cleveland, and he is NOT the biggest of problems there. Shame on Gilbert and the culture he's allowed to manifest there, that's making good basketball players (Crowder specifically) look poorly...
LBJ is not LeGreatest LeGM. But he delivered a title to Cleveland, and it's hard to argue with success.

Who in 2018 is taking on Frye or Smith and returning anything of value?

Blatt was a good coach, but the Cavs won a title after firing him.

LBJ's place is savior of this awful franchise. This team has awful ownership & management, and their only priority should be to do what makes LBJ happy. This club is not winning without LBJ. And LBJ got them to bring in Kevin Love (at the steep cost of Wiggins and Bennett--Bennett at the time still being just a year removed from #1 overall).

The Cavs didn't have money to bring in difference-making talent. So they went out and got some flawed vets looking for a ring or a rejuvenation.
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Old 01-22-2018, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Akron, OH
1,615 posts, read 1,589,912 times
Reputation: 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
He has all the leverage and no personal loyalty to the Cavs organization, so its not surprising. His expectations over the past couple years have been unrealistic, as the Cavs do everything he asks and he still complains about the roster, but hes not going to find a better situation unless Houston can find a way to afford him (which they wont). So hes probably just holding out for the max $$$ possible.


Wouldn't his max deal be higher than everyone else?
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Old 01-22-2018, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
12,199 posts, read 10,414,132 times
Reputation: 11213
Great post merk; I agree with everything you said and have been stating most of it on here for awhile. I feel bad for the longtime Cavs fans, the ones who are die hards of the team when Lebron isn’t on it. I haven’t seen much of eastcoastbias lately...I know he was a big Kyrie fan and these turn of events have to be tough.
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Old 01-22-2018, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
12,199 posts, read 10,414,132 times
Reputation: 11213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ma5cmpb View Post
[/b]

Wouldn't his max deal be higher than everyone else?
What I mean is instead of making an agreement in principle, hes going to rake the Cavs over the coals for everything possible, and even that might not be enough.
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