U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Basketball
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-09-2018, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
12,159 posts, read 10,333,551 times
Reputation: 33138

Advertisements

It's hard comparing because the best shooters years ago still rarely shot 3s. it's crazy to look at a list of the top 3pt shooters from years ago compared to today. It's night and day difference.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-09-2018, 10:30 AM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,872,849 times
Reputation: 2263
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
Curry may be the best but he’s also sort of a perfect storm for today’s NBA. Son of arguably one of the best shooters ever, plays in an era where the 3 ball dominates and has a body type (slender, not super strong/quick/tall) that makes shooting from long range very appealing to work on. It will be interesting to see if similar players come along in the next 10-15 years.
Curry has very quick hands. He's a preternatural shooter because of work. Like Nash, Curry combines shooting, finishing, passing, and ball handling to be a star in the NBA. His shooting is just grossly better than anyone else who has ever played. He pulls up from 35 feet like it's an ordinary shot. Players just don't do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
I don't have any problem with someone putting Curry at the very top of the GOAT shooters list.

I'm just noting that not taking rule changes into consideration and ignoring players from past eras is problematic.
The rule changes are part of the reason that more shooters are in the NBA (and are starring in the NBA). Spreading the floor demands shooters, and winning offense demands spreading the floor. You have to spread the floor now because the 3 second rule lets defenses use more exotic help schemes. With illegal defense rules, you could usually isolate into a 1v1 situation. ISO defense, ISO post scoring, and ISO driving were the skills that generated great offense. ISO today leads to 1v3 or 1v2 or 1v1.5. I don't care how talented you are as an ISO scorer, you are not going to consistently generate great shots in those situations. Teams now spread out the defense with shooters (instead of stacking one side of the floor to prevent double teams).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-09-2018, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,248 posts, read 26,214,003 times
Reputation: 11701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Geek View Post
It's hard comparing because the best shooters years ago still rarely shot 3s. it's crazy to look at a list of the top 3pt shooters from years ago compared to today. It's night and day difference.
I don't think it's all about the 3 ball. Unlike baseball where the height of the mound and the type of ball has changed over the years, the distance of the free throw line to the basket hasn't changed since the days of George Mikan. I can't think of any particular reason why Pete Maravich would shoot free throws any worse than Steve Nash or Stephen Curry. In my mind, I don't think a guy who shoots worse than 88-89% from the line can be considered one of the greatest pure shooters of all time since an slightly erratic FT shot means your stroke can't really be all that "pure."

Another thing to consider is whether to give more weight to FG% today since today's players take more 3s. Average FG% in the League is lower today for this reason. In theory, you should shoot better the closer in you are to the basket. So if Steve Nash shoots a higher % than Rick Barry, who probably took fewer 23'9+ shots than Nash did, should we consider him a better shooter? Would Nash necessarily shoot a lower % in an era without a 3-point line considering he shot over 50% within the arc? Perhaps floor spacing wouldn't have been as good, which would have resulted in a lower % for his two-pointers as well. But Nash was a very good shooter no matter the distance with his career %s from all distances exceeding overall FG% of many of the great shooters of yesteryear.

So that's why it's Curry and Nash for me. They are excellent from virtually all distances on the floor (Curry a little less so from midrange but makes up for it with unlimited overall range) and they are both among the best free throw shooters of all time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-09-2018, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,248 posts, read 26,214,003 times
Reputation: 11701
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
Curry may be the best but he’s also sort of a perfect storm for today’s NBA. Son of arguably one of the best shooters ever, plays in an era where the 3 ball dominates and has a body type (slender, not super strong/quick/tall) that makes shooting from long range very appealing to work on. It will be interesting to see if similar players come along in the next 10-15 years.
Maybe, but I doubt it. I see shooting much the way I see putting in golf. There have been several guys who have been able to lift weights and drive a ball even farther than Tiger could, but few have been able to sniff his short game. We haven't seen a bunch of Tiger prototypes draining difficult puts tournament after tournament and I doubt we'll see a bunch of players doing what Steph Curry has been doing the past few years. It's a hard thing to replicate.

I mean, there was a video of Curry and Durant shooting around the other day and Steph drained something like 62 consecutive 3s. Durant was something like 49-60, which is way better than 99.2% of the rest of the League could probably do, but Steph had a streak of about 25 shots in a row where the ball never came close to touching the rim. I'm not exactly sure how you learn to do that any more than you can learn to be a 90%+ free throw shooter.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-09-2018, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,248 posts, read 26,214,003 times
Reputation: 11701
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Curry has very quick hands. He's a preternatural shooter because of work. Like Nash, Curry combines shooting, finishing, passing, and ball handling to be a star in the NBA. His shooting is just grossly better than anyone else who has ever played. He pulls up from 35 feet like it's an ordinary shot. Players just don't do that.
I don't think that's the reason alone. Ray Allen, Kyle Korver, James Harden, Reggie Miller, Glen Rice, Mark Price, etc. all work/worked hard. I remember watching a special on Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf and he said he would shoot by himself for entire days at a time growing up in Mississippi. At some point, effort and hard work reach their limits, and talent takes over.

I've heard the argument that Steph Curry is merely the first of many to come--in 10 or 15 years time, we will see several NBA players knocking down 35' shots in isolation at a 45% clip. I don't think Curry is a trendsetter though. I think he is a very rare exception to the normal rules of sport.

Take tennis, for example. Where are the Roger Federer clones? It's been 17 years since Federer dethroned Sampras, and yet we still haven't seen anyone hitting the shots he's capable of hitting. I don't think that's because the rest of the field doesn't work hard enough. He just has a level of talent we only see maybe every century or so.

Curry's shooting talent, IMO, is that special. I think the similarity between him and Tiger/Roger is that they make things that would be pure luck for all other players a common feature of their respective games.

Last edited by BajanYankee; 02-09-2018 at 12:30 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-12-2018, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
10,422 posts, read 12,406,700 times
Reputation: 4851
Not in order... Curry, Klay, Ray, Reggie and Larry.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-12-2018, 11:24 PM
 
Location: southwestern USA
1,815 posts, read 1,757,629 times
Reputation: 2396
The best I have seen is Jerry West---especially in a clutch situation the ball simply went in.

After West, the rest of my top 5 would be Curry, Thompson, Ray Allen, and being a Bucks fan a guy very early in their history who was not a great scorer, but who had a great stroke----John Mcglocklin.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-13-2018, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,248 posts, read 26,214,003 times
Reputation: 11701
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefffla01 View Post
The best I have seen is Jerry West---especially in a clutch situation the ball simply went in.
Interesting that you would consider Jerry West clutch when he lost 8 of the 9 Finals he played in.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-13-2018, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,794 posts, read 14,261,979 times
Reputation: 7950
Larry Bird had a .376 lifetime 3 pt. pct, which is not great by today's standards. You had to be over .400 last year just to crack the top 20 of 3 pt. pct. Still he was the greatest natural jump shooter I ever saw. He was fluid and non-mechanical unlike a lot of shooters today. Maybe he would be better under current conditions. We'll never know.


One guy who really impresses me lately is C.J. McCollum. .421 last year, and .422 so far this year. He can shoot the off-the-dribble 3, as Curry does. Most guys are mostly just able to catch and shoot.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-13-2018, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,248 posts, read 26,214,003 times
Reputation: 11701
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
Larry Bird had a .376 lifetime 3 pt. pct, which is not great by today's standards. You had to be over .400 last year just to crack the top 20 of 3 pt. pct. Still he was the greatest natural jump shooter I ever saw. He was fluid and non-mechanical unlike a lot of shooters today. Maybe he would be better under current conditions. We'll never know.
Bird had the first 50/40/90 season in League history so he gets props for that. He is considered one of the greatest if not the greatest midrange shooters in history, which I can't really question without seeing a shooting chart and shot breakdown, but I believe that's generally accurate given his career 50% shooting percentage. The thing about midrange shooting, though, is that tall guys tend to operate in the post more, and don't get shots blocked/contested as often, so I'm not sure how much we should infer from the fact that David West shoots better from 3-10 feet than Curry and Nash do.

I'm inclined to give Curry and Nash the nod because it's much harder for a point guard to shoot 50% from the floor than a forward. In Curry's case, it's even harder because so many of his shots come from behind the arc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
One guy who really impresses me lately is C.J. McCollum. .421 last year, and .422 so far this year. He can shoot the off-the-dribble 3, as Curry does. Most guys are mostly just able to catch and shoot.
CJ is a really good shooter. His FG% and FT% are a little too low to get into this conversation, but he's certainly one of the more talented shooters in the game today.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Basketball
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top