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Old 03-07-2018, 04:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjseliga View Post
When Arizona, back in 1997, beat three #1 seeds (still the only team to do that) on their way to their one and only national title, were they the best team that year, definitely not, but they got hot and had good match-ups and some luck. That team had a regular season record of 19-9, a conference record of 11-7, finishing 5th!
was arizona the best team in 97? in fact yes they were, when they played as a team. i think duke had better players overall, as did the other number one seeds. but when the chips were down, that arizona team stepped up and did what they needed to do to win games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonnyCrockett View Post
2. Arizona State completed its monumental collapse in less than two months by losing to Colorado today. Not sure if a team has fallen so precipitously in that amount of time. They should have been ranked #1 at one point if polls were actually legit and teams were ranked by accomplishment. And now they won't even be in the Dance.
dont count ASU out of the big dance just yet. this was their first double digit loss all season, and they still have a good enough record, and good enough wins to be picked for the dance. i can see them being a 14 seed somewhere, probably the east. at worst they get a 16 seed play in game. but we shall see.
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Old 03-07-2018, 05:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
was arizona the best team in 97? in fact yes they were, when they played as a team. i think duke had better players overall, as did the other number one seeds. but when the chips were down, that arizona team stepped up and did what they needed to do to win games.
People still talk about that '97 Kansas team as being not only the best teams that year, probably one of the best Kansas teams ever.

Hey, I'm an Arizona alumni and will freely admit, in that 1997 tournament Arizona could have easily lost to South Alabama in the 1st round, College of Charleston in the 2nd round, Kansas in the Sweet 16, Providence in the Elite 8, which went to OT and the final game against Kentucky, which also went to OT.

I know some people hate talking about or believing in "luck", not me, and that run was one for the ages.
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Old 03-07-2018, 06:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjseliga View Post
People still talk about that '97 Kansas team as being not only the best teams that year, probably one of the best Kansas teams ever.

Hey, I'm an Arizona alumni and will freely admit, in that 1997 tournament Arizona could have easily lost to South Alabama in the 1st round, College of Charleston in the 2nd round, Kansas in the Sweet 16, Providence in the Elite 8, which went to OT and the final game against Kentucky, which also went to OT.

I know some people hate talking about or believing in "luck", not me, and that run was one for the ages.
you just highlighted my point. kansas and duke both had great players on their teams, but they failed to play like a team. instead they played like a group of individuals all wearing the same uniform.
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Old 03-07-2018, 06:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
dont count ASU out of the big dance just yet. this was their first double digit loss all season, and they still have a good enough record, and good enough wins to be picked for the dance. i can see them being a 14 seed somewhere, probably the east. at worst they get a 16 seed play in game. but we shall see.
The lowest an "at-large" team can be is an 11 seed, that's why 4 of them play in the First Four in Dayton. Seeds 12 through 16 are left for all the conference tournament champions from the lesser leagues.

So if ASU gets in as one of the last teams, they will be an 11 seed, and could be playing in Dayton on one of the those first two nights. If they didn't beat Xavier and Kansas (@ home), two potential #1 seeds, they wouldn't be even in the discussion, considering they went 8-11 over their last 19 games.

Last edited by cjseliga; 03-07-2018 at 06:23 PM..
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Old 03-07-2018, 06:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
you just highlighted my point. kansas and duke both had great players on their teams, but they failed to play like a team. instead they played like a group of individuals all wearing the same uniform.
Not sure if I highlighted your point, since I said that Kansas TEAM was probably the best TEAM that year and one of the best TEAMS at Kansas ever. I never said anything about individuals. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
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Old 03-07-2018, 07:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by cjseliga View Post
The lowest an "at-large" team can be is an 11 seed, that's why 4 of them play in the First Four in Dayton. Seeds 12 through 16 are left for all the conference tournament champions from the lesser leagues.

So if ASU gets in as one of the last teams, they will be an 11 seed, and could be playing in Dayton on one of the those first two nights. If they didn't beat Xavier and Kansas (@ home), two potential #1 seeds, they wouldn't be even in the discussion, considering they went 8-11 over their last 19 games.
not true, each year the ncaa sets up two 11 seeded teams to play each other to get in, and two 16 seeded teams to get in the field of 64.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjseliga View Post
Not sure if I highlighted your point, since I said that Kansas TEAM was probably the best TEAM that year and one of the best TEAMS at Kansas ever. I never said anything about individuals. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
as i indicated, kansas was a group of individuals all wearing the same uniform, they were not playing as a team, especially in the tournament. arizona played as a team in the tournament. had kansas played as a team, i think they would have been national champions in 97 after beating duke.
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Old 03-07-2018, 07:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
not true, each year the ncaa sets up two 11 seeded teams to play each other to get in, and two 16 seeded teams to get in the field of 64.
Yes, four #16 seeds also play in the "First Four" (2 games), but those are NEVER "at-large" teams, those four #16 seeds are ALWAYS conference tournament champions from the lesser leagues.

Sometimes those #16 seed teams even have losing overall records, because they somehow won their conference postseason tournament, so they're in.
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:22 PM
 
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Arizona State probably won't make it. Reverse their tales of two seasons, where by their winning ways came in the back half of the season, including those two marquee wins, then they would be almost a lock. But after not only Syracuse got in two years ago, but more over inexplicably avoided being one of the last four in, I guess I can't leave it past the committee to think otherwise. The lowest at-large has I think been a 13, and that is real rare. I am not sure if the guidelines any longer allow for even a 12 or 13 seed to be an at-large, as cjseliga referred to. I wasn't aware of that. But ither way, ASU won't be a 14,15, or 16.
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonnyCrockett View Post
The lowest at-large has I think been a 13, and that is real rare. I am not sure if the guidelines any longer allow for even a 12 or 13 seed to be an at-large, as cjseliga referred to. I wasn't aware of that. But ither way, ASU won't be a 14,15, or 16.
The lowest "at-large" has actually been a #14 seed (I'm an NCAA basketball tourney nerd ), back in 2012, BYU and Iona.

Since 2011, when they went to 68 teams, here are the lowest "at-large" seeds for each tourney:

2011
11/12

2012
12/14

2013
11/13

2014
11/12

2015
11/11

2016
11/11

2017
11/11

So the trend seems to be for the committee to be sticking with that #11 seed, at least for the last 3 years to be where the last teams with "at-large" bids get slotted.
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Old 03-07-2018, 09:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjseliga View Post
The lowest "at-large" has actually been a #14 seed (I'm an NCAA basketball tourney nerd ), back in 2012, BYU and Iona.
Interesting. I wasn't up to speed in recent years. At one time I recall 13 seed Tulas playing (and demolishing) 4 seed Dayton at least 10 seasons ago. At the time I think that was the lowest at-large, although there might be a few others tied.
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